Public or private negotiations?!?!?

[OrioleMagic]

After a very friendly and professional discussion on AIM with GF, I am posting this thread to initiate some dialogue regarding the handling of extensions.

S3F has always used a public sub-forum for the vast majority of extension negotiations, however this is the first League Commissioner who has refused private negotiations via PM or IM for a star player that is critical to the strategy of an entire franchise. Many times, a good GM will want to know how stubborn a player is in negotiation before trading anyway but that is a different issue.

I feel the option to privately negotiate with a star player is critical. What do you think?

[NYgiantsfan5689]

I'm definitely open to whatever people want here. I had no intentions to be a dick to OM at all in not allowing private negotiations. I just felt like they have all been public, and I don't like giving anyone special treatment.

I do think that at least for me, public is both easier and better. a) It doesn't fill up my inbox. b) it allows GM's who are looking to possibly trade for a player to see what they might be looking for money wise if they had already engaged in negotiations with their current team.

But like I said, if most people would rather allow or completely switch to private negotiations I'm totally cool with that.

[OrioleMagic]

GF, you were not a dick. you take your Commish duties seriously and I respect you for that. Disagreement is good at times in making a league better. I personally think a strong balance is the optimal result. I like posting some of my average guys and it does make it easier for you. however, Kershaw is a critical player and if he became a dick like Dontrelle Willis was in other leagues... I'd want that to be private. I think most others would too. Just my humble opinion though. Thanks for your patience.

[NYgiantsfan5689]

Yay for healthy debate!

[nick]

Not my league, but since it's a sim matter and the title caught me eyes, I wanted to chime in.

I know in TPSL I have allowed private negotiations. Hell, I have let people negotiate over AIM.. a lot of people. I can list atleast 10 people who have done extensions on AIM in the past or at some point with me.

For me.. if the GM is smart enough to come to me with a private extension request, I don't really mind it. I let everyone do it, it's just sort of unspoken I suppose. I don't decline it in other words... but I don't go around the forum promoting it, if that makes sense.

I can understand where GF is coming from, though. Not questioning his reasoning one bit. It makes sense from his standpoint too.

I guess my sense is if a great player is being traded in the first place (in the instance here, if OM was dealing Kershaw or whoever) obviously he's not resigning for a good price, or else he wouldn't be on the block. There should be some general knowledge from opposing GMs on this.

It goes one way or another, though. You either don't allow it completely, or allow it for anyone who wants to. I guess you could allow 2 private negotiations tops per year or something, if it was neccesary to keep people from going overboard-- but I'd just go one way or another.

[NYgiantsfan5689]

Thanks for your input Nick. Just cuz you're not in the league doesn't mean you can't throw your 2 cents in here.

You definitely have a point. If a lot of people want me to allow it, I'll definitely do it.

[nick]

No prob. It's a grey area I think-- I don't think anyone minds it, but a lot of people probably don't know that it's allowed.

I know I've done extensions with hammer and zito on AIM in the past, most of the time just to save us time. When Krush was in the league the first time around, he did a lot of them on aim with me for the same reason.
Browntown and I knocked 'em off before on AIM I think once or twice.. perf even did once when he was alive. I've done extensions for slyder on aim.. porter maybe too. DMB. General..
I've let OM, Mission and Theo when he was around, all negotiate through PM. BJD too at some point, I think after losing Cain and trying to re-sign Tanner or something. I've let Prov too, I think. We might've even worked out that Aramis contract when he signed in COL on AIM I think... but maybe it was in the forums. I dunno anymore.

---that's a good chunk of the league right there, but for those who don't know that I allow this, I suppose it could pose as an unfair advantage. I never really put it out there that I do private negotiations anyway, as I just as much figured if someone hasn't asked me about it, they didn't need to or didn't care to do it that way.

From experience though, it's few and far between that it really makes a difference and the guy hits the FA market or the GM is forced to trade them. Half of the "private" negotiations I've done were more for convienence. So even if you did allow it, I doubt it would make a huge impact on the scheme of things in that regard. Might just make you more vulnerable to league IMs.

[Providence A's]

I didn't do any on AIM. I did a few via PM as Nick said, but only loyal players before the regular extension period begins...just to get them signed early. the bottom line is that you should do what you feel is best for the league.

[cjkalt]

No way, is my take, I had no idea this went on in any league, that actually kinda makes me mad, this should be public info

[nick]

I know Mission has allowed it (in the past, anyway).

I'm pretty sure I've done it in TSSL once or twice.

I dunno what the big deal is really, it's not like it's a big advantage... infact, only 3 times has a player ever even been traded after private negotiations in TPSL:
FLA with Dontrelle to NYM
NYM with Dontrelle to SDN or wherever he went-- and he still got garbage in return, because it was obvious Dontrelle was going to ask for a fortune
NYM with Harden to ATL I think
I don't think a private negotiation has ever ended in a trade other than those 3 circumstances.

Honestly, it's yours and GF's league, so it's up to you two to decide. I tend to list prices on my guys in TPSL anyway, as with Martin I let everyone know that he was asking for 13.7 mil over 5 or something. But part of that is because I run the league and don't feel like it's fair to others if I do it. I don't care if other people do though. I dunno, grey area indeed.

[Porter]

OM's league is strictly private negoations. You can still ask how much a person is asking when in trade talks. Its no different personally. There are going to be a time where this is the only way you can communicate. I don't see the difference.

[nick]

Think of it this way, too...

I read you guys are considering exporting soon... as am I truthfully, if I can figure it out and it won't take away anything from the league...

well.. when you export, you can check figures. Obviously, not everyone will be exporting, so... only some people will get to check figures.

No different than allowing private negotiations.

[Kingdom]

They need to be publicized if they are being done privately cause people are lowly enough to cheat at an online game. There have already been some suspicious happenings in this league in the past, so it's not out the realm of possibility.

[HollywoodLeo]

because it was obvious Dontrelle was going to ask for a fortune

And then he got it just so he can proceed to pitch like shit in Chicago.

[nick]

to zito:
Yeah, I mean. You could always report back to the thread after negotiations are done. I know in the past you've posted extensions in yr SD thread even after we've worked it out, just to clarify that the deal was made. DMB always reposts it... I don't make it a must, but it is appreciated because it saves time and conspiracy theroies.

The main grey area, I guess, is when a contract can't be reached during private discussions. But for as few times it has happened in my experience, it isn't a huge deal. Like I said in another post, if a star player randomly hits the market, usually it means he doesn't work with their financial plan. In all of those trades I posted above where a private negotiation took place, I'm pretty sure that no one got a real good haul in the end anyway.

edit-- just for the record, I haven't even done aim extensions in awhile. Most people here don't know my AIM name, and I'm barely on it lately because I'm always away from the computer half the time anyway