Franchise Players

[Bon Bon]

I have faith in Crazy to make the correct decision on this one. No matter what he comes up with it will be inivated and good for the league.

[DiamondDave]

I'm saying to protect the guys who are least likely. Not everyone.

There is nobody who is truly "least likely"... baseball players are human, with all the same frailties and weaknesses... SIM baseball players are little SIM humans with all the SIM frailties and SIM weaknesses...

You are basically back to the want to have an insurance policy for your stars that costs nothing.... trying to negate the negatives of the game and make it like playing baseball on the PS3 on the easiest level, and rebooting the system after your star gets an injury because you don't want it to be able to save it to your memory card

A game without the negatives is like Eight Bells at the Kentucky Derby... comes up lame and needs to be put out of it's misery

[Kingdom]

Hoping your team comes up lame.

[DiamondDave]

Well... with injuries and surprises... you never know... and not knowing before a season is a good thing... "anticipation is making me wait"

[CrazyEights]

Wow...this is a really good thread... especially for a sim league forum. I will be introduving our new rewards system soon, and there will be points awarded for posts in this thread. Anyways, I've never been a big fan of changing ratings for any reason, even though people complain about it all the time. I always just thought that you should take the good with the bad and deal with them both. Sometimes you get the good, and othertimes you get the bad. When we get the bad, it usually feels like it's pouring on us. For some reason, when we get the good, sometimes we don't even realize it at the time. I know there have been a ton of players with good talent increases in this league, but i usually hear about it when a player "dies". I don't make changes, because I think that would be irresponsible of me as a commish. I think people would start losing trust in me if I did that, and trust is the most important thing in a sim league like this. By joining this league, we all agree to let OOTPdecide if we win games or we lose them. We let it decide if our prospects develop into stars or if they flounder in the minors like so many do in real life. We must also let it decide if our players "live" or "die". It has been pointed out many times in this thread that strange and unexplainable things happen to players in real life as well. I'd love for someone to explain to me why Rick Ankiel suddenly "forgot" how to pitch.

I've always been against the idea of changing a players ratings after they drop, even if it is involves cashing in reward points to get it changed back to where it was. I know a lot of people disagree with that, but I'm hoping that Dave's strong arguements have made some of you reconsider that opinion. I came up with the "Franchise Player" idea as a sort of compromise to the idea of bringing players back to life. At least this way you can't just look in hindsight and say "oh i want that player back". I do think that there should be "given up" in order for something like this to work. I put a poll up to get some input, and find out how much support each side has. The poll is pretty much split currently... 8-6. My first thought after reading this thread was to scrap the whole idea. We are all here to have fun....I don't have to run this league, and you don't have to stay in the league. Nothing is keeping any of us here... we do it because we enjoy it. So I started having second thoughts, and wondered if there might be a way to develop a system that everyone can at least be content with. This may not be possible, but I do have an idea that might make it possible.

Soon, I will be introducing a new rewards program to the CSSL. Well... it will actually be the old SBSL program that Fishercat helped me develop... with some changes made to make it fit the CSSL better. My idea is to combine the "Franchise Player" with the rewards program. Basically, you will earn points for participation in the league and in S3F as a whole. These points can be accumulated and used for various rewards. One reward could be a franchise tag, and would be limited to 1 or 2 tags. Once you purchase a franchise tag, you must use it to protect a player. You cannot save it until a player "dies", and then use it. This way, you would be giving up something to get this reward, you would be giving up valuable points to protect a certain player. If you spend the points on a franchise tag, then you won't have them to spend on another reward. This way you would be giving up something in order to get the reward that many of you want.

Ok... I'm ready to get ripped apart for this idea... I think.

[Bon Bon]

I actually like the idea. When I first read about this Franchise tag thing I was like well it is a good idea to protect a player or two from falling apart, but after listening to Dave and reading his points on this issue I am slowly changing my mind on this as it may be more realistic if some players lose and some players gain during the off season. I also loike what you are proposing Crazy with the rewards program. If I am reading it right and i am not too confused you are saying if you acquire a reward you can use it for a Franchise tag or you may choose not to use it there and use it for some other reward. This seems to give the owner the option to do what they feel may be best for there club at the time. I like it.

[ljshorty89]

I see your point DD, as I have the whole time. But what you fail to realize is that there are many players who are LESS likely to be hurt, or fall off. They may still tail off, but it's less likely, and often less severe. In real life, if David Wright hits .210 with 17 HR and 56 RBI this year, it will be an EXTREME shock to everyone. If Brandon Webb goes 9-13 with an ERA over 5, it will be an EXTREME shock. It can happen. They could both have awful years, but it's LESS LIKELY. So, I'm not saying protect everyone, I'm not even saying protect them completely. But in my opinion, if I'm going to take a player death, the program should at least make up a reason for it. If my player gets caught using roids, gets hurt, or w/e the program can tell me, I will accept that their talent lessens. But just suddenly telling me that for NO REASON, Carlos Gomez can't run as fast? That makes no sense to me.

[CrazyEights]

But in my opinion, if I'm going to take a player death, the program should at least make up a reason for it. If my player gets caught using roids, gets hurt, or w/e the program can tell me, I will accept that their talent lessens. But just suddenly telling me that for NO REASON, Carlos Gomez can't run as fast? That makes no sense to me.

I think OOTP version 9 does that, but 6 and 6.5 aren't as advanced.

[ljshorty89]

I know. I'm just saying that if there was a given reason, it would at least make sense to me. The randomness, the not having a reason is what frustrates me most about player death

[browntown653]

I'm fine with this idea, because I know I won't be spending my rewards points on it

[ljshorty89]

That's fine. Depending on the rewards available, I probably wouldn't either. But I'm just trying to explain my opinion...

[DiamondDave]

I see your point DD, as I have the whole time. But what you fail to realize is that there are many players who are LESS likely to be hurt, or fall off. They may still tail off, but it's less likely, and often less severe. In real life, if David Wright hits .210 with 17 HR and 56 RBI this year, it will be an EXTREME shock to everyone. If Brandon Webb goes 9-13 with an ERA over 5, it will be an EXTREME shock. It can happen. They could both have awful years, but it's LESS LIKELY. So, I'm not saying protect everyone, I'm not even saying protect them completely. But in my opinion, if I'm going to take a player death, the program should at least make up a reason for it. If my player gets caught using roids, gets hurt, or w/e the program can tell me, I will accept that their talent lessens. But just suddenly telling me that for NO REASON, Carlos Gomez can't run as fast? That makes no sense to me.

There is no reason in reality or logic that prevents a player of any talent level to have a sudden dropoff for any type of reason... it does and has happened... you are thinking it has something inherently to do with forgetting or whatever else you want to call it... but there are other reasons, physical, mental, and other for such a thing to happen (as I have listed before)... we have the physical part, in terms of known injury drops, covered somewhat with the durability rating... but as in real life, just because someone is durable does not mean they cannot have unexpected drops... Ripken, for example, talked about this constantly and knew it as fact... even he would say that he was so consistent and durable not just because of preparedness but also because of what he considered LUCK.... well gee, if you have a guy who suddenly drops off in actuals or talent at age 28 after 4 years of superb play, guess what... BAD LUCK... if you get a guy who gets a boost all the sudden from a bench type into a great starter player, guess what... GOOD LUCK

Crazy.... I still do not thing that only using points to gain this HUGE advantage is truly not enough unless it is a HUGE amount of points that takes more than 10 thread stats to obtain... just as I feel that everyone (including myself) who got an all-time dream player also got off WAYYYY too easy... but upon thinking, I think that this is still only adding a positive or suppressing the negative... it is still basically the same thing with just posts being the catalyst (big whoop.. we know anyone can post)... IMHO there should be something game related that adds a negative to somewhat counterbalance the positive (such as suppressing gains, as stated) ... just as I think if you get a reward player, you should have a negator like taking away a draft pick of some level to be determined and/or that that player's salary is commensurate immediately with their talent level (not the $5 MIL that we got lucky with)... all this creates a greater choice to use a bonus.. more drama and a bigger decision when you really have to weigh positive and negative in an election of a major action... as stated in Spiderman... "with great power comes great responsibility"... and you better think responsibly when opting for a big reward because the price could come back and bit you

now THAT would make an interesting league.... more than just 10 posts for a bonus... still use participation to earn the right to make a choice, but still have things weighted to make it a challenge and not just a cherry on top of a ice cream treat

[CrazyEights]

the amount of points that i was thinking about was 100 for that reward, but that won't mean much to you until you know how points are earned. if you remember how the old sbsl reward system was structured, there were a lot of limits. this will be structured the same way. there will be points earned for posts and participation in other ways. the dream player draft was more of an intro type thing and to get participation to the forums as a whole, instead of just the league. You are right that it was a huge reward... these awards will still be good, but not nearly as good as a dream player. What type of game related negator did you have in mind? Taking away any positive progression might be too difficult to track.

[DiamondDave]

Many many options, but you are right... without BOSI it is harder to track exact progression/gains.... loss of draft picks, $$$ (tv deal money, cash on hand, FA or extension $$$, etc), reduce fan loyalty/rating, loss of a random spect from your top 10, the list goes on

I think that making it a hard decision instead of a mindless bonus adds the intrigue.. intrigue would be excellent for the league

[Kingdom]

Right now, the modifiers could easily explain fluke seasons for better or worse. The number of strikeouts were beyond ridiculous (naturally you expect a Preston Wilson type gunning for the record, but a couple dozen players?). The team ERAs and what have you didn't surprising me, considering how typically thinned out we are on pitching per team (to begin with), combine a fantasy draft with the idea of two additional teams, you won't have great pitching initially. I don't know how these modifiers really work, I never bothered them when I ran TSSL, they were exactly like S3SL and that league is ideal. I know in nick's league, the number of walks and ERA jumped last season after he tinkered around.

I still think we deserve explanations when a player, great player, in his prime, suddenly loses a lot of talent and there's no injury. I said it before, and I'll say it again, if OOTP 6 was advanced to where it came up with things about players getting severely injuried off the field doing non baseball activities, or getting in the trouble with the law, or doing drugs/steroids or what have you, it sits well for me. But they don't exist and we run rampit with top prospects and talents dropping off. Why does Evan Longoria, who's not even 25? suddenly become an average 3B? Those things really suck and when there's no explanation other than "Evan Longoria developed a habit of striking out more, lost bat speed, etc and now sucks" ....but with the franchise player system, I like it, and I think crazy initially pointed to having limits and that to me makes even better. Soon the league is going to be over saturated via free agency and the ammy draft, so we don't need to save half our team. But perhaps keeping our 27 year old ace pitcher intact (unless he breaks a bone, tears something etc.) is a good facet of the league.

Or if Markus Heinsohn would like to upgrade OOTP 6 for us all... you know, so Evan Longoria's player page could say "Evan Longoria developed a habit of striking out more and has lost power because he stayed the night at Doc Gooden's and became a heroin addict, thus was a arrested and locked up in a room with Lindsay Lohan" ..would work well.