U.S. Death Toll in Iraq Surpassed 2,000

[Hmark6]

And all of those turned out to be bullshit.

Exactly. My point in posting these quotes was to put your "Bush Lied" arguement to sleep. If you believe that Bush lied about WMDs, then he had all of the highest ranking democrats lying for him as well, and the only person telling the truth is the situation is Saddam Hussein. Now I find it much easier to believe:

-- Bush acted on the intel that he had in an effore to defend America
-- The Democrats went back on their words because there was a political advantage to be gained
-- and Saddam Hussein is the character in all of this that is not to be trusted.

Bringing Clinton into the conversation, was not to blame him, but to point out that everyone, including YOU believed that Saddam had WMDs and would like nothing more that to see America suffer one way or another. Only when there was political capital to be gained, and bumper stickers to sell, did the dems come up with "Bush Lied, Kids Died". No one was saying "This is a lie" before the fact. That, I would respect.

You know what else is funny? The whole "Bush Lied" argument debunks the "Bush is a Dummy" argument. If Bush lied, then he must have had some master plan where in doing so, he could take Saddam out of power, employ Halliburton, control Iraqi oil fields, and get himself re-elected. So which is it? Is Bush a Dummy? Or some supreme evil mastermind? You liberals crack me up.

You want to talk about troop morale? I hope you've spoken to atleast one soldier before making this claim. Every solider, friend or family, that I have spoken to is thrilled to serve their country, love the direction President Bush is taking the country in, and are proud to defend the freedoms of ungrateful liberals like you. Should I sling in some phony stats about troop morale like you did? Would that convince you? I bet DiamondDave has a thing or two to tell you about troop morale.

[Slyder]

I love that you say military morale is high because it isn't. They know they are not wanted and they have no idea of when they will return. A recent poll says that close to 80% of Iraqis want us out and 45% do not care if we are blown up. That's scary and boosts no ones morale. And this biased media you are referring to is on the right side, the side of the president (in low case letters). They have backed him since 9/11 and are now starting to catch on that this man has not had a clue since being in office. The only thing good about the hurricanes is that we finally got some of our media back. It amazes me that republicans will back one man over a whole country.

Does this poll come from the same "source" as the Air Force Reserve report that Bush skipped town and didnt finish that CBS used (and was proven to be outright lies and forgeries?)? .

Two of my best friends growing up are in the 130th Air Force Reserve, which has been in Afghanistan, Kuwait, Iraq, Germany, and else where and they among the others that I know there would rip you to shreads for even thinking that. One of those friends didnt go just once, he went back. Of course there are exceptions but those in low moral are the vast minority.

[DiamondDave]

In actuality, re-upping/enlisting is at the highest level in the modern era. Morale is indeed actually high, there is a sense of pride of the job being done.

Remember I am a Vet and I have many contacts still in. I know the stats and the thoughts of the soldier. Do not listen to the incredible bias that comes from many sources.

[General]

I personally know 3 Marines who served in Afghanistan and Iraq. Morale is not low. I'll take their word overs yours.

[love_that_reefer]

Exactly. My point in posting these quotes was to put your "Bush Lied" arguement to sleep. If you believe that Bush lied about WMDs, then he had all of the highest ranking democrats lying for him as well, and the only person telling the truth is the situation is Saddam Hussein. Now I find it much easier to believe:

-- Bush acted on the intel that he had in an effore to defend America
-- The Democrats went back on their words because there was a political advantage to be gained
-- and Saddam Hussein is the character in all of this that is not to be trusted.

Bringing Clinton into the conversation, was not to blame him, but to point out that everyone, including YOU believed that Saddam had WMDs and would like nothing more that to see America suffer one way or another. Only when there was political capital to be gained, and bumper stickers to sell, did the dems come up with "Bush Lied, Kids Died". No one was saying "This is a lie" before the fact. That, I would respect.

You know what else is funny? The whole "Bush Lied" argument debunks the "Bush is a Dummy" argument. If Bush lied, then he must have had some master plan where in doing so, he could take Saddam out of power, employ Halliburton, control Iraqi oil fields, and get himself re-elected. So which is it? Is Bush a Dummy? Or some supreme evil mastermind? You liberals crack me up.

You want to talk about troop morale? I hope you've spoken to atleast one soldier before making this claim. Every solider, friend or family, that I have spoken to is thrilled to serve their country, love the direction President Bush is taking the country in, and are proud to defend the freedoms of ungrateful liberals like you. Should I sling in some phony stats about troop morale like you did? Would that convince you? I bet DiamondDave has a thing or two to tell you about troop morale.

Everyone knew Bush was going into Iraq before he was even elected President. 9/11 was his chance and he lied and used false intelligence to get us there. There is no getting aroud that. Not for one second did I believe that Saddam had WMD's and especially ones that could get here in 45 minutes as Bush and Blair claimed. Don't ever try and tell me what I thought since you do ont know me. As for Democrats helping in the lies, where do you get that? Bush lied and they fell for it just like you. Democrats got the same intelligence briefings as did the republicans. Democrats went back on their word? More like they smelled the bullshit and tried to change the situation and help those troops you keep bringing up. Everyone that is not for the war is thinking of the troops. Of course we support them and that's why we don't want them there for reasons that aren't just. You Buch Backers crack me up

Yes some soldiers are saying they love Bush and what he is doing and you want to know why? Because they don't want to be told that what they are doing is for nothing. No one in their right minds wants to think that. I have spoken to probably a lot more troops than you since I live in Kentucky where a lot of my friends and others just like them go since they have no other alternative to get an education. They are not happy and yet don't want to think they are wasting their lives. And my stats aren't phony and I wish they were. But that is the truth of the matter. They do not want us there and the bombings and the soldiers suicides prove that. Quit watching your Fox news and do some actual reading from people with no political parties. I love how people try and dismiss these polls coming from Iraq. I also loved how the news dismissed the polls that had over half of Americans polled were against the war in Iraq before we went to war but yet you think people looked at this after the fact. Hilarious how you guys have such a short memory. Here are some more polls you might want to look at before telling em that you talking to two or three marines.
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm
Quit backing one man and one party over a whole country in the name of all good!

[Slyder]

Then whats the excuse of the democrats for failing for it twice? Clinton in his time also believed that Saddam had WMD. Even fired missiles at "suspected targets" in 1998, if Bush did willingly lie, then I guess Jacques Chirak, the Clinton administration, John Kerry, other democrats who believed Clinton and Bush, Schroeder, Putin, among others were also lieing because many of them also had the same intelligence readings from their "associates" pre war.

No one called him (Saddam) on it because too many people in high ranking places were getting kickbacks while Iraqis starved.

Also you expect us to believe the same people who said that Kerry was going to win with room to spare on election night 2004 with exit polling, the aforementioned Texas National Guard lies, and basically convicting Rove before the indictments even came down (while former Clinton official Sandy Burger got caught with CLASSIFIED documents stuffed down his pants and not hear much of it)?

Quit blindly following the liberals and the attempted destruction of the nation rights for all that is good.

[love_that_reefer]

Then whats the excuse of the democrats for failing for it twice? Clinton in his time also believed that Saddam had WMD. Even fired missiles at "suspected targets" in 1998, if Bush did willingly lie, then I guess Jacques Chirak, the Clinton administration, John Kerry, other democrats who believed Clinton and Bush, Schroeder, Putin, among others were also lieing because many of them also had the same intelligence readings from their "associates" pre war.

No one called him (Saddam) on it because too many people in high ranking places were getting kickbacks while Iraqis starved.

Also you expect us to believe the same people who said that Kerry was going to win with room to spare on election night 2004 with exit polling, the aforementioned Texas National Guard lies, and basically convicting Rove before the indictments even came down (while former Clinton official Sandy Burger got caught with CLASSIFIED documents stuffed down his pants and not hear much of it)?

Quit blindly following the liberals and the attempted destruction of the nation rights for all that is good.

Clinton wrongfully attacked targets to distract people from BJ Gate. That was wrong and again has nothing to do with Bush's term. And you just repeated what I said, they all had the same intelligence that Bush gave them so its not lying, its being mislead.

Second paragraph I do not get at all. The Iraqis are starving right now so you make no sense.

And the Texas Guard lies have nothing to do with polls. Rove is being indicted in case you forgot for OUTING A CIA OPERATIVE!!! What are you dumb? That is putting another person's life in danger and for what, to smeer them? That's treason buddy. If you truly cared about this country you wouldn't stand for this no matter if it's Democrat or Republican. As far as the exit polling, those are misleading. It took the most votes ever for an election to get Bush elected over the guy with the second most votes ever so don't give me any of that shit. How did Bush get elected to a second term? By bringing up 9/11 which had nothing to do with anything Bush was trying to do and you guys voted for him and now look what happened. Bush has a 37% percent approval right now and that's not misleading. Over half of America thought it was wrong to go to war in the first place, also not misleading. Do you not remember all the people in SAn Fran, Detroit, and NY being arrested for protesting? Do you guys remember anyhting at all? 45% of Iraqis think it is good to kill British and US troops and yet you want to believe your country who lies everytime they feel like it. I love how you guys fail to see they haven't got the man responsible for 9/11 and put most of Americas resources in the wrong place. How can you defend this man? Do you not have a soul or a brain? My eyes are wide open and I like to do my own research unlike you who will believe anything and everything that comes from Washington. Remember Bush has a 37% approval which means you are in the minority and its too late.

[Slyder]

Clinton wrongfully attacked targets to distract people from BJ Gate. That was wrong and again has nothing to do with Bush's term. And you just repeated what I said, they all had the same intelligence that Bush gave them so its not lying, its being mislead.

Ill try and break this down point by point cause I dont think we are fully understanding what the other is saying.

Those people I named get their own intell from THEIR sources, just like the United States, the United States isnt the only nation in the world with spies and contacts elsewhere in the world.

And the Texas Guard lies have nothing to do with polls.

The point I was trying to make with the National Guard and the point on Clinton is that both sides do just as much Bull sh***ing as the other and endanger the military on a whim cause its their perrogative as president.

Rove is being indicted in case you forgot for OUTING A CIA OPERATIVE!!! What are you dumb? That is putting another person's life in danger and for what, to smeer them? That's treason buddy.

Um he hasnt been indicted YET (unless I missed that report), until that comes and he (Rove) gets a court date all that is said is worthless propaganda and inuendo by everyone (including ones like Rush Limbaugh and Fox). What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

If you truly cared about this country you wouldn't stand for this no matter if it's Democrat or Republican.

Again I say WHEN he (Rove) gets charged and the case goes to court then all facts will be on the table, not the inuendo and rumor being reported by everyone.

As far as the exit polling, those are misleading.

Just trying to show how trustworthy anyone is in this day and age.

How did Bush get elected to a second term? By bringing up 9/11 which had nothing to do with anything Bush was trying to do and you guys voted for him and now look what happened.

Bush won WV because for the first time in 80 yrs WV has a semblence of an economy thanks to some of the Bush policies and changes at the state level (away from the liberal ideals that government control everything) also.

Bush has a 37% percent approval right now and that's not misleading. Over half of America thought it was wrong to go to war in the first place, also not misleading. Do you not remember all the people in SAn Fran, Detroit, and NY being arrested for protesting?

I felt it was about time, but again as I said in the first page, we should have gotten him the first time we were over there.

Are those the cities that are trying to force feed us such things as gay marriage and complete ostracization of any religion that uses the bible or mention of God in the courts (unconstitutionally might I add, legislature is suppose to pass laws, not created by the courts)?

Bush never cared what his poll ratings were, hes not a bend in the wind politician.

I love how you guys fail to see they haven't got the man responsible for 9/11 and put most of Americas resources in the wrong place.

Um how often have we seen Bin Laden? Hes cowering in some hole in the mountain cave like the coward he is. We have been cracking down on the training camps everywhere not just Iraq and Afghanistan.

We on US soil yet to be attacked again.

How can you defend this man? Do you not have a soul or a brain? My eyes are wide open and I like to do my own research unlike you who will believe anything and everything that comes from Washington. Remember Bush has a 37% approval which means you are in the minority and its too late.

I also do my own research. I have never relied on tv, radio, etc for that because I find it to be a bunch of better than thou attitudes.

[love_that_reefer]

Those people I named get their own intell from THEIR sources, just like the United States, the United States isnt the only nation in the world with spies and contacts elsewhere in the world.

Every senator and congressman has their own intelligence briefings which is provided by those in Washington. They had the same intelligence that the president had and were taken on a ride and wrongfully voted for war before they had a chance to vote against it.

The point I was trying to make with the National Guard and the point on Clinton is that both sides do just as much Bull sh***ing as the other and endanger the military on a whim cause its their perrogative as president.

I agree and I was pissed when Clinton did it too but again Clinton was years and years ago and had no effect on what Bush has done. That is a tactic for the rightwingers who somehow think it is relevant to bring up Clinton.

Um he hasnt been indicted YET (unless I missed that report), until that comes and he (Rove) gets a court date all that is said is worthless propaganda and inuendo by everyone (including ones like Rush Limbaugh and Fox). What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

You are absolutely right and I apologize. Scooter Libby is the one and after he rolls over on Rove, then we will see more heads roll. Its never good when the vice-presidents top aide committs crimes against the country.

Bush won WV because for the first time in 80 yrs WV has a semblence of an economy thanks to some of the Bush policies and changes at the state level (away from the democratic ideas) also.

This man has put us in the biggest debt ever by a president. Here's a neat link:
http://nationalpriorities.org/index....per&Itemid=182

Are those the cities that are trying to force feed us such things as gay marriage and complete ostracization of any religion that uses the bible or mention of God in the courts (unconstitutionally might I add, legislature is suppose to pass laws, not created by the courts)?

Bush never cared what his poll ratings were, hes not a bend in the wind politician.

I don't quite get the first question. As far as the second statement, "staying the course" was and is a terrible choice and we keep seeing everyday.

Um how often have we seen Bin Laden? Hes cowering in some hole in the mountain cave like the coward he is. We have been cracking down on the training camps everywhere not just Iraq and Afghanistan.

We on US soil yet to be attacked again.

Excuse me but where was Suddam Hussein when we found him? He was in a hole in the groun, literally. Intelligence is not focused on Bin Laden or else we would have found him by now. In four years, nothing? That's is simply failure on everyone's part. The US has claimed to have killed Bin laden on multiple times and they have killed Al Qaeda's number two man about twelve times now. The military needs to stop this until they get all the facts. And you are right, we haven't been attacked since 9/11. What does that mean? Nothing. Its not because of "homeland security" which has been a huge joke. It takes time and planning to complete a huge mission such as 9/11. They didn't just spin a globe and point out America and say "Hey tomorrow we are going to hijack planes and crash them into something".

Did anyone look at Operation Northwoods yet? It's because of things like this and many, many others, I do not trust this gov't and never believe a word of it and so far I have been right in doing so.

I also thought i should explain something about myself too. I belong to no political party as each president is corrupt and makes many mistakes. Some make more and bigger mistakes than others (Bush). I am pro-choice, for the death penalty, for gay marriage, against the "war on drugs" and for the troops. I believe we need to take care of our own before everyone else unless other more important matters come up such as the Holocaust. I also blame the Democratic party for showing zero back bone in the 2004 election and have a lot to do with where we are today. Just a little taste of what I am like.

[Slyder]

Every senator and congressman has their own intelligence briefings which is provided by those in Washington. They had the same intelligence that the president had and were taken on a ride and wrongfully voted for war before they had a chance to vote against it.

I was referencing reports that other nations also had intelligence that Saddam had something he shouldnt have.

I agree and I was pissed when Clinton did it too but again Clinton was years and years ago and had no effect on what Bush has done. That is a tactic for the rightwingers who somehow think it is relevant to bring up Clinton.

Clinton administration changed the goal of US foriegn policy about Iraq to recommend regime change. I use Wikkipedia because it appeared to be the most informative and least likely of having a "bias".

From Wikkipedia:
Regime change in Iraq became a stated goal of United States foreign policy when Public Law 105-338 (the "Iraq Liberation Act") was signed into law by US President Bill Clinton.

Iraq Liberation Act Info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

You are absolutely right and I apologize. Scooter Libby is the one and after he rolls over on Rove, then we will see more heads roll. Its never good when the vice-presidents top aide committs crimes against the country.

We all have brain cramps like that from time to time.

This man has put us in the biggest debt ever by a president. Here's a neat link:
http://nationalpriorities.org/index....per&Itemid=182

One of the things that ticks me off the most is seeing the amount of spending and pork, wars are expensive but predating the wars and Sept 11th, when the 2000 election was "decided" I thought we would see a curve in the blatent pork, but irregardless I was wrong.

Excuse me but where was Suddam Hussein when we found him? He was in a hole in the groun, literally. Intelligence is not focused on Bin Laden or else we would have found him by now.

For all we know, we could have had a couple soldiers walking down the street and someone could have walked up to them while they were eating or whatever and say you need to check out that house, something strange going on in there many people claim to have seen Saddam walk in there, have a spy or two infiltrate the building then boom you got visual.

In four years, nothing? That's is simply failure on everyone's part. The US has claimed to have killed Bin laden on multiple times and they have killed Al Qaeda's number two man about twelve times now. The military needs to stop this until they get all the facts.

Yes they should have found something more by now. It would be tough regardless of who was in power and who was organizing the recon.

Because have you ever tried to go into the Mountains of the region? Its a very very rugged terrain and near perfect for hiding an individual(s). The extemes of the weather makes it very very difficult irregardless of the season to make much progress, not even including the 1000s of tunnels that date back to the Afghan resistance during the Soviet invasion in the 80s.

And you are right, we haven't been attacked since 9/11. What does that mean? Nothing. Its not because of "homeland security" which has been a huge joke. It takes time and planning to complete a huge mission such as 9/11. They didn't just spin a globe and point out America and say "Hey tomorrow we are going to hijack planes and crash them into something".

Not even a minor attack, any screwball could look up online on how to make a bomb park a car somewhere and jsut wait.

Did anyone look at Operation Northwoods yet? It's because of things like this and many, many others, I do not trust this gov't and never believe a word of it and so far I have been right in doing so.

See we do have some common ground .

I also thought i should explain something about myself too. I belong to no political party as each president is corrupt and makes many mistakes. Some make more and bigger mistakes than others (Bush). I am pro-choice, for the death penalty, for gay marriage, against the "war on drugs" and for the troops. I believe we need to take care of our own before everyone else unless other more important matters come up such as the Holocaust. I also blame the Democratic party for showing zero back bone in the 2004 election and have a lot to do with where we are today. Just a little taste of what I am like.

Might as well return the favor.
I am more conservative but Im not a right winger.
I am Pro Life (exception of rape, incest, life of the mother)
I attend an American Baptist Church
I believe that Marriage should be 1 man & 1 woman BUT if Rosie and the rest want the legal rights to like insurance, inheritance, etc should be recognized (sort of a Give unto Caeser what is Caesar's, Give unto God that is God's).
I am split on the Death Penalty depending on evidence and circumstances (ones that are a danger shoudl they ever be released/escape type deals).
I try not to judge, for we all have skeletons in our closets and we each will have to hone up to them at some point in life or after life.

[love_that_reefer]

Yes they should have found something more by now.
Have you ever tried to go into the Mountains of the region? Its a very very rugged terrain and near perfect for hiding an individual(s). The extemes of the weather makes it very very difficult irregardless of the season to make much progress, not even including the 1000s of tunnels that date back to the Afghan resistance during the Soviet invasion in the 80s.

We have way too much technology for this not to have happened. We have satellites that can read the date off of a dime thorugh my window right now but yet we can find the tallest man in Afghanistan?

Not even a minor attack, any screwball could look up online on how to make a bomb park a car somewhere and jsut wait.

I don't think you can go from the biggest US attack to a simple car bombing. The terrorist kinda ****ed themselves since they now have to top 9/11. It will take a lot of planning and a lot of funds which Bush did help take a chunk out of the funds.

[Slyder]

We have way too much technology for this not to have happened. We have satellites that can read the date off of a dime thorugh my window right now but yet we can find the tallest man in Afghanistan?

I agree with the tech we have it should be easier, but because of the vast extent of whats hidden in the mountains I can understand why we havent. Thats all im saying. There was one report that there is like thousands of tunnels, a lot of which are booby trapped and dead ends that with the proper planning and right organization could keep someone hidden for a long while. Theres no way that anyone could ever find ALL of the tunnels. Even if we did get Bin Laden he could be buried in one of them we demolished or just hiding in the ones deeper in the ground. I wonder if Bin Laden is sick of that American meal called Spam, cause I figure thats the type of stuff hes had stored there for a while and been living off of that at least at first.

I don't think you can go from the biggest US attack to a simple car bombing. The terrorist kinda ****ed themselves since they now have to top 9/11. It will take a lot of planning and a lot of funds which Bush did help take a chunk out of the funds.

With the way the media is it would get news coverage even if it were something small.

[love_that_reefer]

Not if their corporate heads tell them not to. We would have to read about it on the net. Hell Iraq has a constitution now and got hardly any coverage. What the hell are we fighting for? "Good Night, and Good Luck" is a good movie to watch when you want to see people in the media actually do something for a change instead of finding guys at car washes stealing your change or asking fluff questions to Bush. "The Insider" is also a good movie to see about how the media works. A little long but not bad if you have time to kill.

[frankrod25]

whoa,

gas for bodies..........that's about it.

f