CD I recommend

[Porter]

When I was young me and my mama had beef
Seventeen years old kicked out on the streets
Though back at the time, I never thought I'd see her face
Ain't a woman alive that could take my mama's place
Suspended from school; and scared to go home, I was a fool
with the big boys, breakin all the rules
I shed tears with my baby sister
Over the years we was poorer than the other little kids
And even though we had different daddy's, the same drama
When things went wrong we'd blame mama
I reminice on the stress I caused, it was hell
Huggin on my mama from a jail cell
And who'd think in elementary?
Heeey! I see the penitentiary, one day
And runnin from the police, that's right
Mama catch me, put a whoopin to my backside
And even as a crack fiend, mama
You always was a black queen, mama
I finally understand
for a woman it ain't easy tryin to raise a man
You always was committed
A poor single mother on welfare, tell me how ya did it
There's no way I can pay you back
But the plan is to show you that I understand
You are appreciated

http://lyricsdomain.com/27/2pac/dear_mama.html

Keep in mind, i was brought up on Al Green, Teddy P and Luther Vandross when i grew up. Im R&B guy 1st. There are rappers that i cant stand with a passion (50 Cent). But i get sick of the generalization when MTV does s**t for rap but wanting the same s*** over and over.

[Porter]

http://lyricsdomain.com/2/bone_thugs...rossroads.html

Just read the lyrics to that and get what you have out of that. Thats some deep stuff there.

[voodoomon1jd]

i have no problem debating with Dave, even though our opinions obviously differ... because atleast he tries to validate his point of view, unlike this tool:



you're a close-minded idiot, and i'd like to hit you over the head with a snow shovel. bye

No need in trying to validate the point, the point is self explanatory, rap absolutely sucks!

Oh now you want to hit me over the head with a snow shovel

You probably learned that violence is okay form your rap songs.

[Porter]

The fact that you can only say it absoultely sucks and nothing else doesnt bring much to the table. So im guess you havent given 4 seconds of time to listening to non-50 cent rap.

[voodoomon1jd]

Okay, I was a flamethrower by posting my original thread, it was merely just due to the argument going on. But really do I need to write a filibuster on why rap sucks?
Believe me I have been forced to hear much more than 4 seconds of rap and it's just my personal opinion that I cannot stand it. I didn't call anyone a "tool, idiot, or want to hit someone over the head, or ironically call someone closed minded. It's my opinion and everyone's got one.

[Porter]

everyones got one, and now that you posted that now i know why and i understand it.

[Killah Sith]

The Roots are awesome, though I like their earlier albums more than the past two even though both of them are strong. I don't know why they haven't taken off more, I guess they don't rap about guns, blunts, and hoes so they can't go platinum.

thats exactly what i was trying to explain. while there are plenty of mainstream artists who shamelessly sample classics and don't even try to put their own spin on it, they are out-numbered by the amount of truly skilled dj's and hip hop artists who make their own beats using modified samples and hundreds of other subtle effects. its no easy task.

i only suggested The Roots to Dave because he said he might appreciate rap artists more if they played their own music, and The Roots are the most prominent rap group that fits that bill.

[Killah Sith]

To those who are sticking up for rap music, I appreciate it and thank you. Trust me when I say I've been doing it for 20 years. Back then it was called "a fad." Ten years ago it was called "a fad." Well here we are 25 years after the first recorded rap song and it's as legit as rock, country, metal, r & b, jazz, or any other genre of music that's out there. HipHop outlived the hair bands, and it out lived the alternative bands, and it's outlived the boy bands...twice. I admit that's a little tacky considering that those are just forms of rock and rap music has many different styles as well.

My advice is to make the points, make the counterpoints when need be and move on. Those who don't like rap music don't have to like rap music. But the funny thing is, there is nothing they can do or say to change our minds either and there is nothing they can do or say that really affects rap music. Those who mock it don't know nothing about rap, they only think they do. Those who don't think rap music or any other forum of music is true music are not true fan of music to begin with. Not everyone is going to like it, and most who don't do not because it's not there thing. Some will give it a chance, others will not no matter who the band is or how legit that band is. Some people don't like the sound of the music, that's cool. Some people don't like the sound of the vocals, that's cool too. Others don't like the content, though any real fan of rap knows that all rap isn't "gangsta," nor is a majority. And sadly some don't like rap music because it's considered black music, and I"M NOT SAYING ANYONE HERE IS LIKE THAT!!! I haven't seen even a hint of that, but I've dealt with that fact for 20 years and to this day people tell me it's nothing but n***** shit. I love the fact that a lot of the rap bands I listened to when I was in school, you know back when it was just a fad, are still making albums today and are still relevent, even if the mainstream doesn't know it.


"Hip Hop rules and those other industries out there can not take it" Krs-One

[Cardinal Optimist]

Outlived Alternitive rock? Last I checked, Radiohead and gang were still making music.

[Killah Sith]

Well you should get the point. Is Alternative rock still really popular like it was? Maybe Radiohead is but overall it's not. Some of those hair bands still make new stuff as well. But the fact is rap came up in popularity at basically the same time as the hair bands. As the hair bands faded rap still succeeded. As Alternative faded rap still succeeded. I'm not trying to put down either, I liked groups and songs of both, but to me it helps show the relevence of rap music. A lot of rock fans denounced rap in this thread and a lot of rap fans seem frustrated, I simply showed them it that it doesn't matter what they think.

Besides I even said that is a tacky statement by me anyway because I think all the labels are mostly BS anyway, but it helped my case. Like my friend always says, they should just get rid of it all the genre names and labels and group it all together as music. They cause more barriers than anything and this thread is proof. Everyone is guilty to some extent. How many great artists has everyone missed because it was labeled as something they didn't think they would like? People won't check out Miles Davis because it's jazz, Bob Marley because it's reggae, Johnny Cash because that's country, A Tribe Called Quest because they are rap, or Led Zepplin because they are old and from the 70's. Check something out and be opened minded about it. If you like it great, if not oh well. It doesn't make it any less good.

[Providence A's]

I used to listen to rap early in high school, but then I outgrew it I guess you could say. Today's rap music doesn't even come close to the earlier stuff IMHO. I used to like early Ice - T, early Wu, and stuff like that.

Alternative rock, any kind of rock, isn't dead...there are plenty of successful bands, but just because all MTV and that kind of crap will play is mostly rap, hip hop, and cheesy pop type stuff, doesn't mean rock isn't out there. It all depends on what you define success as, too. If you're talking selling millions upon millions of album, then most of the time no...but if you're talking about critically successful or successful enough for the artist to make a living, then yes.

And as I've said before, just because something is popular, doesn't mean it's good. That is some faulty logic. Popular just means a lot of people like it in some manner. But you have to look at why that is...in many cases people like it because it's shoved down their throats, they're not exposed to anything else, and/or (as someone else pointed out) they don't actively search for any music...any music that isn't on the surface

[BrianDawkins]

No need in trying to validate the point, the point is self explanatory, rap absolutely sucks!

Oh now you want to hit me over the head with a snow shovel

You probably learned that violence is okay form your rap songs.

and i'll assume you inherited your lack of knowledge on rap from your backwoods, 3-fingered uncle who likes to make you squeal like a pig

[Killah Sith]

I've always said that you could put me, who can't sing or rap and am absolutely horrible, on MTV and radio with some terrible beat and play it over and over and over that it'd become popular. I agree that selling albums doesn't necessarily make on legit or good. I mean Vanilla Ice did sell 10 million albums, enough said. Master P sold a millions of records and he wasn't that good either. And you are right Providnece, the older stuff is normally better than the older stuff for rap. The rap on tv now is mostly crap and unfortunately that is what everyone sees and judges it by. Most of the best rap music rarely hits the airwaves. I have rock friends who say the same thing about rock music. And I didn't say alternative rock or rock in general was dead, or at least that is not my intention. Maybe "outlived" was a poor choice of words on my part. I'm not trying to compare rock and rap against each other. They are both great in my opinion and I'm a huge fan of both.