Trade SF-CIN: My veto explanation

[missionhockey21]

Good trades pass and fail just like bad trades pass and fail. I have had several deals vetoed over the years and some I felt weren't right, others I knew the decision to be fair. Life isn't fair all the time and neither is the S3SL. I don't feel like debating with people, nor do I want to, so I am sharing my reasoning on the veto. I am not saying it's right and I probably won't explain it beyond this but I hope this clears up any confusion why I did indeed voted no on this. The other two no's can do the same if they wish.

cincy gets:
Freddie Lewis of aaa $385,714, 2.0 stars
Dwain Macneil SS mlc, 5.0 prospect stars
total: $385,714


S.F. gets:
Brett Evert SP $ 4,410,000, 3.0 stars
total $4,410,000

There is the deal. Evert is an above average pitcher and one that can rack up K's. His contract is pretty affordable considering his talent and what some get on the FA market and to many staffs he would be an upgrade. In return for him, San Fran was sending SS prospect MacNeil (and Lewis). And while it is true that MacNeil is somewhat of an unknown commodity in terms of how he will turn out, I think he has a stong chance to get close to his potential. 5,6,2,4,7 shows that he has strong development considering he has several years as a prospect rating left. The power is a bit of a concern but I find that most prospects develop their power as they get older (not all of them, but a lot can.) Even if he doesn't reach his ceiling, it still virtually boils down to the 6th best prospect for an above average SP who at 32, is likely to get no better. I am not claiming my view is right or wrong, in fact it's probably pretty ignorant, but that's my thought behind the trade. A stud prospect deserves a stud pitcher back in return and IMO, Evert is not it.

As for judging via star ratings, I don't do it. Stats play a small role in looking at a trade but usually only in rare situations (IE a player who has had years of failure.) It's mostly looking at the ratings and what benefits the deal has to either team.

Again I am not looking to debate as I will be busy over the next few days. Please don't turn this thread into an argument thread. But if anyone feels the need to add their input without insulting me or anyone else in the league, feel free to.

[CincyRedsFan30]

I disagree, but at least you posted your reasoning.

I will say that I think your thinking is unrealistic here. You expect a STUD pitcher for a STUD prospect?? Using a real life example... you would expect us to get Johan Santana for EdE? Seems a bit strange to me and doesn't seem consistent with what I would expect to hear you say.

[mntwinsfan]

thanks Mission for the reply.

Now to me it needed to pass! Agian I dont care of a 22 year old spec rated 6th. If he was top 3 then yes I would want alot more. My deal for me was sp. I need the final sp piece to complete my staff. Numbers are good now but I want them better. A 32 year old pitcher has a good 4 or 5 solid years left in him! McNeil may never develope... I am for now not later. So that is why I believe this deal need to pass. 10 10 8 talent for evert I beleve is great. Wish it would have passed.

[mntwinsfan]

IT would be nice on vetoed trades to do this. So gms understand what happened. But still say I like the deal and should have passed. If I got 1 of the other stud sp on reds team would it have still been vetoed?

[CincyRedsFan30]

Yeah, I'm interested to hear if it would have been overturned had it been Belisle or Bevis?

[Saber]

I'd say a 3.5 starter would have a much better shot of getting dealt than a 3.

[missionhockey21]

I disagree, but at least you posted your reasoning.

I will say that I think your thinking is unrealistic here. You expect a STUD pitcher for a STUD prospect?? Using a real life example... you would expect us to get Johan Santana for EdE? Seems a bit strange to me and doesn't seem consistent with wha i would expect to hear you say.

This is the OOTP world though, and it's different than real baseball. Look at all the pitchers with primarily 10's and 9's with their movement, stuff and control. In this league there are far more pitchers with that kind of talent versus pitchers in real life with talent like that. A Johan Santana in the MLB is a rare commodity but a similar type pitcher in the game isn't. And the same is true for prospects as well, there are many prospects with near god-like potential in the game and I don't believe that to be true in real life.

It's just different to compare. I just use my knowledge of the game and try to make my best judgement in regards to that. I understand that it may not always try to be right but I try to do it as fair and as un-biased as I can.

[Saber]

Belisle and Bevis are not Evert, so that trade would be judged on its own merits.

[Fishercat]

Cincy would have gotten a capable MI and a top-tier prospect for a 3.0 SP in his early 30's? Man, I felt lucky to get a 4.5 for a 2.5-3.0 SP in the same scenario a while back...

[CincyRedsFan30]

I can't buy that, but whatever. I look at it from the Realism perspective, not Fantasy Land.

What can I do though.

[missionhockey21]

Yeah, I'm interested to hear if it would have been overturned had it been Belisle or Bevis?

Personally, and I told you this yesterday, Bevis would be a perfect match. There are pro's and con's to both sides and I think it would be balanced. I would pass it.

It also should be noted that SF can't add salary so if you guys do re-work a deal, there needs to be a contract or something coming back to cincy to balance the salaries. Just thought I would let you guys know.

$$ left for Free Agents $0

[Saber]

PJ Bevis is a 10-10-8 pitcher who rates 4 stars.

Brett Evert is a 10-10-4 pitcher who rates 3 stars.

Both are 32 years old. Is there confusion about who was thought to be traded?

[Fishercat]

Mission, don't be silly, we don't follow those stupid salary rules around here. At least we didn't way back when. Did times change when I was gone?

[CincyRedsFan30]

Cincy would have gotten a capable MI and a top-tier prospect for a 3.0 SP in his early 30's? Man, I felt lucky to get a 4.5 for a 2.5-3.0 SP in the same scenario a while back...

I think you're overrating Macneil based on his less than stellar AA numbers.

Others have had much more biased(to one side) deals go through, but it seems this situation always happens to me. I have no chance of doing anything with this team with these strange things always happening.

Some on this board are just out to get me, IMO. The replies to various threads on this board indicate that to me and this just confirms it further.

[missionhockey21]

I can't buy that, but whatever. I look at it from the Realism perspective, not Fantasy Land.

What can I do though.

CRF, I have played this game for quite a long time, and usually the fantasy perspective is the best one to look at.