Role of the trade council discussion

[Impossibles]

Ok, now that the season is over I have to vent some fustration at the trade council.

I knew before the season started that this season was going to be a lost cause, and I had many impending free agents with trade value. I decided to make some of these players available, but you know this league and how difficult it can be to get value back for star players. Before the season started I struck a deal to move one of these star players, and TC rejected the deal because they felt I wasn't getting enough back, never mind that I decided the return was adequate and the team I was dealing with didn't have any other players I coveted.

Then the trade deadline approached, and TWICE deals I made were rejected by the trade council, again because they didn't feel I was getting enough back.

Why do we need the TC to hold the hands of GMs in this league to make sure they feel trades are fair? I feel if two experienced teams agree on a deal, and there doesn't appear to be anything fishy going on, the trade should be passed promptly and without debate. It should be left up to teams to make their own decisions, not the TC to evaluate trades.

Its not like I recieved many offers and chose a lesser option, if I agree on the deal it should be my decision. The league lets teams mis-manage their own teams when it comes to roster management, but as soon as 2 teams are allowed they get involved?

Anybody else feel the same way? Does the league and TC care to discuss this issue?

I know this sounds like an angry rant, but honestly I just want to have the discussion and I feel others in the league feel the same ways.

[cjkalt]

I appreciate the work they do but I agree, should only be used to manage new GM's... stopping a deal between me and Leo and KoZ and Leo just doesn't make sense to me... never has

[zodious]

I planned on staying out of this when I read it. But thought that I'd like to say a few things.

1) I love these sim leagues, I do not want this thread or any of the threads based on this topic to topple the league because the trade counsil disbanded because no one could agree.

2) I think the trade counsil is great for people whom are new to the league and can stop trades that just don't make any sense. Especially in other leagues where the talent base is astronomically different.

3) I would like to see the discussions that go on on trades that fail, is it close? I know that Molina does a good job showing why, but I think there are a lot of people that feel like the trade counsil has a vendetta against them which I do not see. I have felt they have been honest.

4) I do lean towards impossibles that if 2 veteran GMs agree that a trade is fair and it's not too crazy it should pass. I almost feel the screws have been tightened on what does and does not pass simply because there are so many trades in the last few months.

I dunno just my two cents. I just wanna sim! Lol LET'S DO THIS!

[HollywoodLeo]

what is this? Bash TCs week?

I agree with the sentiments posted in the first post but I also think that a commish should run a league how he sees fit since he does most the work. If part of that is micromanaging trades then so be it, ill just go with the flow.

I will say, however, that I commend Impossibles for being civil and reasonable about his complaints, unlike some other GM who has been also publically complaining about TC vetos.

[Kingdom]

I suppose it is Leo. Hey, I wasn't happy that I had a couple of deals vetoed, but at the same time, I'm over it and I don't care. I appreciate that this wasn't so much a venomous attack such as someone else has recently begun doing so. At the same time, it's like I made that thread about our commishes for nothing. Some people wonder why OM, Mission, etc. are not finding sim leagues to be much fun anymore.

Look, we all get pissed when a deal fails. I've had them failed. Mission has had deals failed. PA, Slyder, etc. etc. have all had deals failed. And I'm sure we all at the time believe the deals are failed. We're not vindictive on council. We try to work as a team. In Hybrid, we've had an issue of new GMs and ensuring fairness. In S3SL, well, we do not fail deals that often. We just didn't think highly of your deals. I'm sorry they were in their final years of their contracts. We've all been in that situation and a lot of us have seen our players walk. I was in the same situation with Guiterrez and I could have dealt him for about the only decent offer I got, but I didn't like the return. I doubt the deal would have passed. But that doesn't bother me because this is all fake and not worth getting so emotional about. I do not care that my finances are fucked after resigned Guitz.

You have a right to be mad, but at the same time, I just don't know if it's worth being upset about? There's no answer I can give you that's going to satisfy you. I can be honest with you, and tell you I thought both deals were bad. I can tell you that in hindsight, the deal I made in the other league that was vetoed, wasn't that good either. Beyond that, I don't know what else I can say.

[Kingdom]

In addition to the statement regarding allowing teams to mis-manage their roster. I disagree whole heartedly. I have pushed, and pushed, and pushed for sensible punishment for teams that intentionally tank. We finally have that in place in this league. I think it needs to be in every league, in some shape or form. And as a council, we agreed to put rules in place to try to curb the tanking as much as possible. No one is perfect. No system is perfect.

[Impossibles]

I suppose it is Leo. Hey, I wasn't happy that I had a couple of deals vetoed, but at the same time, I'm over it and I don't care. I appreciate that this wasn't so much a venomous attack such as someone else has recently begun doing so. At the same time, it's like I made that thread about our commishes for nothing. Some people wonder why OM, Mission, etc. are not finding sim leagues to be much fun anymore.

Look, we all get pissed when a deal fails. I've had them failed. Mission has had deals failed. PA, Slyder, etc. etc. have all had deals failed. And I'm sure we all at the time believe the deals are failed. We're not vindictive on council. We try to work as a team. In Hybrid, we've had an issue of new GMs and ensuring fairness. In S3SL, well, we do not fail deals that often. We just didn't think highly of your deals. I'm sorry they were in their final years of their contracts. We've all been in that situation and a lot of us have seen our players walk. I was in the same situation with Guiterrez and I could have dealt him for about the only decent offer I got, but I didn't like the return. I doubt the deal would have passed. But that doesn't bother me because this is all fake and not worth getting so emotional about. I do not care that my finances are fucked after resigned Guitz.

You have a right to be mad, but at the same time, I just don't know if it's worth being upset about? There's no answer I can give you that's going to satisfy you. I can be honest with you, and tell you I thought both deals were bad. I can tell you that in hindsight, the deal I made in the other league that was vetoed, wasn't that good either. Beyond that, I don't know what else I can say.

I completely agree with being a commish is a thankless job that leaves you wondering why one bothers many times over. Mission has done an awesome job with this league and I love being a part of it.

However, being thankful for the existence of this league doesn't mean nobody should ask questions. Discussion and progress should be encouraged and viewed as a positive, not a negative.

My question is what is the intended role of the TC? Is it to ensure all trades are "fair", or is it to protect the integrity of the league? I should hope its just the latter, as judging trades is completely subjective.

I think we all agree we don't want new GM's getting fleeced in deals, and we don't want collusion or teams giving away quality players in case a GM dissapears after destroying his team. I would think that's the main goal of TC, but somewhere along the line it evolved into some sort of panel of deciding if a deal was fair or not. I feel each GM should be responsible for their team and be able to make any moves they want provided it doesn't hurt the league.

[cjkalt]

3) I would like to see the discussions that go on on trades that fail, is it close? I know that Molina does a good job showing why, but I think there are a lot of people that feel like the trade counsil has a vendetta against them which I do not see. I have felt they have been honest.

4) I do lean towards impossibles that if 2 veteran GMs agree that a trade is fair and it's not too crazy it should pass. I almost feel the screws have been tightened on what does and does not pass simply because there are so many trades in the last few months.

I dunno just my two cents. I just wanna sim! Lol LET'S DO THIS!

On the bold, Molina's couple sentences publicly are nice, but OM does the best job of this behind the scenes between the involved GM's...

That being said I would like the names of members on the TC to be public knowledge, and for them to be expanded so that we don't wait on every vote.

TC gets it right 90% of the time just like umpires do but when they don't they are the center of attention... doesn't mean they are bad... just that in the controversial situations they are the center of attention

[Saber]

I think the names are public.

As for your other concerns, shut up.

[Kingdom]

If the commish wants to tell everyone who's on council, that's fine. But if you abuse that knowledge and harass people like some individuals have in the past, I will not only remove you from the league but you will be removed from this entire forum period.

Again, it's up to the commish. And yes, I am on every council.

[Kingdom]

I completely agree with being a commish is a thankless job that leaves you wondering why one bothers many times over. Mission has done an awesome job with this league and I love being a part of it.

However, being thankful for the existence of this league doesn't mean nobody should ask questions. Discussion and progress should be encouraged and viewed as a positive, not a negative.

My question is what is the intended role of the TC? Is it to ensure all trades are "fair", or is it to protect the integrity of the league? I should hope its just the latter, as judging trades is completely subjective.

I think we all agree we don't want new GM's getting fleeced in deals, and we don't want collusion or teams giving away quality players in case a GM dissapears after destroying his team. I would think that's the main goal of TC, but somewhere along the line it evolved into some sort of panel of deciding if a deal was fair or not. I feel each GM should be responsible for their team and be able to make any moves they want provided it doesn't hurt the league.

You're entitled to your opinion and this thread can be a mature way of expressing those opinions. I am not going to argue either and simply state that no council wants a lousy deal to pass and therefore we fail them. Sorry if that you feel that you or anyone else has the right to make said deals but it's not healthy for any league and there have been councils in place long before you and many others joined. Many deals have failed. And I can only think of a couple people that made such big deals out of it.

[HafDawg2003]

I've had countless deals rejected, moreso in my earlier years (wow, its been years now too) than recent.

You shrug it off, try again, and/or move on.

[HafDawg2003]

FYI

Current S3SL Trade Council:

Missionhockey21
DiamondDave
Saber
Hammer
Kingdom_of_Zito

[missionhockey21]

I'll admit the S3SL TC has gotten a few wrong, both letting some pass that should have failed and failing some that should have passed. I'm probably one of the more lenient votes and I am glad that our TC is a healthy mix of different personalities, perspectives, and from across different divisions in the league largely.

As for the TC, our's has never been hidden knowledge or a secret society. And it has been together for YEARS. Same guys voting on every deal and I really can't remember who was on it before these guys, as some have been on it from the start. I think Fisher/Waruv and McKain were on it at one point, but I've had less than 8 or 9 total over the 6 or 7 years this league has been going on. IF you want to talk about a thankless job, it is theirs, and I really appreciate their help and passion for the league.

Zito is absolutely right too, everyone in the TC has had deals rejected. We don't play favorites, we might be a bit more watchful of new GM's or big talent but I think that is what anyone would expect.

I'm not dismissing this thread at all, just wanted to share those points with everyone, so please keep discussing guys.

[Pronk]

The only concern about trades being rejected is when I plan two trades in the same league and one of the trades go through and the other gets rejected. This can really screw up the entire dynamics of the team. For example, if in trade 1 I trade a 3B for a Starting Pitcher and it goes through it could leave an opening on my team for the need to go out and pick up another 3B from another team. Then in trade #2 I trade a CF for that 3B, however that trade gets rejected even though both parties feel that the trade is fair and will help there team out the most at that certain time. This could really screw with the dynamics of your team because now you have an absence in your line up at 3B and there is no way to go back and cancel the first trade or even re-work it. Other than that I understand that trades are sometimes not going to work and we should just move on from it and the main thing have fun.