Is PetCo really a pitcher's park?

[padrefanforever]

I don't know what you've been trying to debate this whole time, but I've been debating that PetCo IS a pitcher's park, despite the fact that the hitter's inabillity to hit the long ball makes it seem much worse than it is. And, IMO anyways, my stats that I relayed into this thread prove my case.

And I disagree........I don't think it's a pitchers park, nor a hitters park, I think it's a baseball park that plays very fair, which is what I've been saying.

Good this is done !

[HollywoodLeo]

I don't know what you've been trying to debate this whole time, but I've been debating that PetCo IS a pitcher's park, despite the fact that the hitter's inabillity to hit the long ball makes it seem much worse than it is. And, IMO anyways, my stats that I relayed into this thread prove my case.

And I disagree........I don't think it's a pitchers park, nor a hitters park, I think it's a baseball park that plays very fair, which is what I've been saying.

Good this is done !

I know what your viewpoint is, the problem lies in, and what keeps me responding (although i'll probably stop after this) is that you don't even seem to be comprehending what i'm arguing.
Everytime I argume my case by showing that visitors hit less HRs in PetCo than Visitors do elsewhere (for the most part) you come back with a retort about how if the Padres had better HR hitters they'd hit more HRs than the opposition in PetCo does...which is completely irrelivant to my argument, and something we both agree on.

[padrefanforever]

lol........I spoke on what you've been saying at least 5 times.......I am ACCUTELY AWARE of your spin on this topic.........It HAS NOT ESCAPED me.....and I keep going back to the TOPIC that I originally wanted to discuss....... while you keep trying to spin it off into a different topic entirely........

[HollywoodLeo]

i'm spinning nothing, look at the title of the thread. I simply took a snippit (is that a word?) out of your original post and chose to go off in a different direction, because I didn't fully agree with the statement.

Your obvious main concern is that the Padres can't hit home runs....I agree with that, so why would I bother debating something I agree on?

However, in your original post (in the "next year" thread) you used this obvious fact, combined with the fact that visitors hit more home runs in PetCo than the Padres do, to imply that PetCo has "shown not to be a pitcher's park this year..." THAT is what i'm debating. I'm not debating, nor putting any kind've spin on the Padres ability (or lack thereof) to hit a home run. I'm simply arguing that, despite the fact that the Padres can't hit home runs, PetCo is still a pitcher's park.

You can choose to view the stats and keep to your opinion that it isn't a pitcher's park, that's your perogative, but you keep coming back with the same retort that the Padres can't hit home runs, which, again, is irrelivant to the debate.

[padrefanforever]

"go off in a different direction" = SPIN..........or tangent.......either way it's precisely what I just said.....
"However, in your original post (in the "next year" thread) you used this obvious fact, combined with the fact that visitors hit more home runs in PetCo than the Padres do.." Thats correct.....I think the opposing team has had little problem compared to us in hitting the ball out of this park........thats the whole point
"but you keep coming back with the same retort that the Padres can't hit home runs, which, again, is irrelivant to the debate" irrelivant to your debate, not mine, see second paragraph

[HollywoodLeo]

"go off in a different direction" = SPIN..........or tangent.......either way it's precisely what I just said.....

Well, I did "spin" away from your original topic...which is why I sperated this into it's own thread. I saw it going off on its own and didn't want to hijack your thread.

However, your accusation of me "spinning" the topic came on post 48. If you didn't want to talk about the subject I "spinned" this into, we shouldn't be at post 4, let alone 48.
I simply argued that PetCo is still a pitcher's park, despite the fact that Padres hitters can't hit HRs pretty much anywhere. You chose to disagree with that, and there is born a debate.

Thats correct.....I think the opposing team has had little problem compared to us in hitting the ball out of this park........thats the whole point

This is where we have a failure to communicate. I think the opposing team has had little problem compared to us in hitting the ball out of this park as well. Hell, the numbers only prove that, it's kinda hard to argue against.
Where we differ in opinion is that I don't think this neccesarily means PetCo isn't a "pitcher's park" it just means the Padres hitters can't hit home runs.

irrelivant to your debate, not mine, see second paragraph

It is indeed irrelivant to the debate that we got into. The Padres' inability to hit a home run does not make a park a "hitters" park, a "pitcher's park" or anything in between. It just means they can't hit a home run.
The whole reason I use visitor's home runs is because it takes away the ability to blame it on the players.

If your only real argument is that the Padres can't hit home runs, then we don't even have a debate, because it's hard to debate when two parties agree on the same thing. But since you disagree with my assessment of what type of park PetCo plays out as, we do have a debate.

My argument is that it's irrelivant to this debate how many home runs the Padres are capable of hitting. Using visitor's numbers, as compared to visitor's numbers elsewhere, gives you a much more accurate assessment of how well home runs are really able to be hit at any given park.

[padrefanforever]

Cards hit 4 HR's in the game.......

Yah lets move the fences in.....then we wont be the only team unable to hit HR's in our ballpark.........

[HollywoodLeo]

Cardinals hit 4 home runs in one game out of 81.

This indefinitely proves that you can easily hit HRs in PetCo!

[padrefanforever]

Cesar Izturis hit a HR.........that alone is enough proof for most level headed thinkers........

This field is NOT the issue.......the personnel we've been fielding is.......when you don't have guys with the ability to hit HR's, the HR total in your home park is going to be low......when you have a team come into town with legit HR threats......and they proceed to make the park look small, it should be crystal clear........

And they aren't the first team to make Petco look small........not even close

[HollywoodLeo]

Kaz Ishii hit a home run there once as well, what's your point?

If you want to argue against moving the fences in at least use sound arguments.

A guy who doesn't normally hit home runs getting a good swing at one pitch isn't a sound argument. It just means hit had a good swing and hit the ball hard once.

What you want to look for is trends. One game where a team hits 4, or one at bat where a scrub hits one do not constitute trends.

And of course they're not the first team to do it, but it also doesn't happen as often as it does at other parks.

Naturally if you give the team more power hitters they're going to hit more home runs, but that says nothing about how much the same team could hit elsewhere, or at PetCo if the dimensions were altered.

The park is not the only issue, but it's part of it.

Have you looked at Adrian Gonzalez's home/away splits recently?

[padrefanforever]

If you want to argue against moving the fences in at least use sound arguments.

I have......it's the most sound of all arguments to which there is no rebulltal worth writing.......our player personell sucks and is the biggest issue with regards to why more HR's overall aren't hit in Petco..... The players we have suck, they don't hit for shit anywhere, not just home.....when one of our guys squares one up, finally, guess what.......it clears the fence......amazing how that works....

[HollywoodLeo]

Player personnel is irrelevant to whether or not home runs are harder to hit at PetCo, it only makes the overall number that much worse.

[HollywoodLeo]

Since player personnel is all that seems to matter to you, let's take a look at the home/away splits of a couple of our players who can hit home runs.

Adrian Gonzalez Career Batting Splits - Baseball-Reference PI

HRs at PetCo: 22 (10 in 2006, 10 in 2007, 2 this year)
Everywhere else: 50 (14 in 2006, 20 in 2007, 9 this year, 4 as a Ranger)

Khalil Greene Career Batting Splits - Baseball-Reference PI

HRs at PetCo: 26 (3, 6, 6, 12, 1 04-08)
everywhere else: 51 (12, 9, 9, 15, 2, 04-08, and 2 in 03)

[HollywoodLeo]

All of that aside, I'm really not necessarily saying the fences have to be moved in.

If you want our park to remain dominant to pitching and a detriment to hitting that's fine. There's certainly advantages to that (and disadvantages).

But if that's what you want then just make your arguments as such.

A sound argument can be made against moving the fences in while still acknowledging that it's much harder to hit a HR at PetCo than pretty much anywhere else.

[padrefanforever]

LOL.....didn't AGon and Greene lead the ML in road doubles...? Something that should be happening in such a "huge" ballpark like Petco also ? Yah it's the guys that aren't mentally defeated, who are also legit HR threats that have no problem crushing this ballpark