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[HollywoodLeo]

Padres » 2010 » Batters » Value Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

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To be fair, we'd need to look at the numbers of the new Padres as well.

That being said, I don't think the divergence would be that much better.

[love_that_reefer]

Bartlett and Hudson definitely improve the defense up the middle but Hudson is coming off a career worst season and moving to PetCo shouldn't help things, not to mention facing NL West pitching. There is still no one that is replacing AGon's production and presence in the lineup. AGon doesn't walk on water but he was the only force in that lineup.

[padrefanforever]

Hudson moving to Petco wont help ? He's not a HR hitter, he's a line drive/gap hitter and being in Petco should be a great fit.....I wanted him here a long time ago and love that he's here for the next two.....HUGE upgrade over Eck on both sides of the ball

[padrefanforever]

So, you think adding Ryan Ludwick to the list of "upgrades" suddenly makes up for Adrian on paper?

I never suggested 1 player made up for the loss of AGon, don"t be stupid....but upgrading many positions does......and depending on who they replace AGon with at 1st could make this hugely lopsided.....

Also nobody is ignoring the rotation

[love_that_reefer]

Also nobody is ignoring the rotation

You sure haven't mentioned the loss.

[padrefanforever]

I've really considered the starting rotation a bit of a wash.....Yes losing Garland was a bummer, but I believe if he stays healthy that Harang will essentially duplicate Garland's efforts.......also it was the bullpen that was lights out more often than not, and that remains very very strong.....

[U]2010[/U]--
Chris Young
Jon Garland
Kevin Correia
Clayton Richard
Wade LeBlanc or Sean Gallagher

2011-
Mat Latos
Aaron Harang
Clayton Richard
Tim Stauffer
Castro, Luebke, LeBlanc, or more likely isn't on this team yet

There is also lots of talk about Chris Young signing here again, and if he's healthy this rotation would be much better since he was never even a factor last year other than penciled in to actually be a starter

[love_that_reefer]

You honestly believe Harang will duplicate Garland's 2010 numbers? Based on what exactly? If he even sniff 180 IP let alone 200 IP, I would be terribly shocked.

[HollywoodLeo]

I never suggested 1 player made up for the loss of AGon, don"t be stupid....but upgrading many positions does......and depending on who they replace AGon with at 1st could make this hugely lopsided.....

Also nobody is ignoring the rotation

Making numerous marginal upgrades to positions manned by shitty players hardly makes up for the loss of Adrian.

[padrefanforever]

Making numerous marginal upgrades to positions manned by shitty players hardly makes up for the loss of Adrian.

Actually it very well may since the players replacing those shitty players aren't shitty, and in some cases actually quite good or at least with tremendous upside....

What's pretty interesting is that you place so much value on ONE player in a lineup of 9......I place more value on TEAM than one player .....sorry you don't see it that way, but I do

[padrefanforever]

You honestly believe Harang will duplicate Garland's 2010 numbers? Based on what exactly? If he even sniff 180 IP let alone 200 IP, I would be terribly shocked.

As I said if he stays healthy.....and if he does he certainly will "sniff" 180ip.......and Petco and Balsey have shown they both can have a positive effect on pitchers.....this could be especially true for someone coming from a bandbox like in Cin. ....My only real concern for him is can he stay healthy.....

[HollywoodLeo]

Actually it very well may since the players replacing those shitty players aren't shitty, and in some cases actually quite good or at least with tremendous upside....

I know they're not shitty, that's why they're upgrades. If I thought they were shitty I'd call the moves lateral moves and not upgrades.

But they're just marginal upgrades, meaning the difference isn't that big. Meanwhile, the loss of Adrian is pretty huge.

What's pretty interesting is that you place so much value on ONE player in a lineup of 9......I place more value on TEAM than one player .....sorry you don't see it that way, but I do

If there was anyone else in the line-up even close to being as good as Adrian (old players or new acquisitions alike) I wouldn't place so much weight on him.

[padrefanforever]

But they're just marginal upgrades, meaning the difference isn't that big. Meanwhile, the loss of Adrian is pretty huge.

This is where I believe you to be 100% in the wrong...

Nobody is suggesting that they've added Roy Hobbs.......but as you said the players that were replaced were shitty......so even if you added average players you've taken HUGE upgraded steps forward..... upgrading LF, RF, CF, SS & 2b far outweigh the loss of one offensive player who hit .279 with 11 home runs at home.....

And I've said numerous times that it remains to be seen how much we'll miss him because they haven't replaced his position yet. I think they've easily increased this teams potential through 5 positions, and again now all I hope for is that they can reduce the hit at the 1b spot.....and I'd love to see Lee here to do just that

[HollywoodLeo]

Well, you just said it yourself. They're average players. The fact that they're replacing shitty players doesn't change the fact that they're just average players.

You don't make up for the lost offensive production of Adrian with average players.

If they do compete again in 2011 it'll be because of the pitching staff because the offense sure isn't going to be any better. (Not that it was that good to begin with even with Adrian)

[padrefanforever]

I didn't say the guys we added were average players I said

so even if you added average players

but thanks for misreading AGAIN...... The entire point was that even if you only added average players you've taken huge leaps forward.......and yes HWood taking huge leaps forward at 5 positions far outweighs what could be a minor loss at one......until we have our 1b in place nobody knows how big a hit they are taking.......

There is zero need to take a chicken little stance on this considering how many other positions have better players in them now.......none whatsoever

[HollywoodLeo]

How long have we been posting on the same forum, pff?

You know I'm hardly the chicken little type. In fact, I'm generally a bit of a homer.

I'm just calling a spade a spade because our offense sucked with Adrian. The additions of Orlando Hudson, Cameron Maybin, and Jason Bartlett might impress a homer such as myself enough to say the offense will be good if they didn't lose Adrian. But when you lose Adrian and those three are added to the team I'm not going to pretend the offense is somehow much better when it isn't.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I was certainly wrong about the overall team last year so it wouldn't be the first time. But in the meantime, they're hardly as good on paper as you're making them out to be.

I won't comment any further, though. We're starting to talk in circles now. The only reason I even replied to this one is because of the silly "chicken little" remark.