Padres@Snakes 9/3/07-9/5/07

[HollywoodLeo]

"Shouldn't the starter still get credit for the win since he pitched 8 shutout innings, even though the closer blew the game? WHY?!?!?"

Yes, yes he should

(i'm assuming you're talking about a situation where the closer blew it but the team came back, awarding the W to the guy who blew the lead.)

[DirtyKash]

Until they start removing ERs from pitcher's records every time they get themselves out of jams this logic carries no weight.

What I meant is that sometimes the starter gets screwed by the bullpen but other times he gets helped by the bullpen.

Example 1: Starter loads the bases with no outs. Gets pulled from the game. Reliever comes in, strikes out the first batter, gets a double play ground ball to end the inning. RESULT: no runs score, no runs charged to starter.

Example 2: Starter loads the bases with no outs. Gets pulled from the game. Reliever comes in, allows grand slam. RESULT: starter charged with 3 runs.

Sometimes he's helped, sometimes he's not. I don't think you can just start giving 0.25 earned runs here and 0.5 earned runs there. It gets messy. It's why not everything is baseball is created equal (ballparks are not all the same size, pitchers don't all get the same amount of run support, etc).

[HollywoodLeo]

This isn't about the starter getting "screwed" or "helped" by the bullpen.

It's simply about who allowed the runners to score.

Giving full credit to the pitcher who let him on base suggests that that pitcher is the one who let him score when, in reality, it was a group effort.

If the runners don't score then they don't score.

[DirtyKash]

I respectfully disagree.

[padrefanforever]

by that logic, if the last reliever doesn't allow the runs to score, thus saving everyone's ass, shouldn't the starter and first reliever still get charged their 0.25 ERs and 0.5 ERs, respectively? It works both ways, HWood.

No.........he should get two free dinners

[padrefanforever]

Until they start removing ERs from pitcher's records every time they get themselves out of jams this logic carries no weight.

If you get out of a jam, there are no ER to worry about......

(i'm assuming you're talking about a situation where the closer blew it but the team came back, awarding the W to the guy who blew the lead.)

This is a peave of mine........I believe the starting pitcher should always get the W, if the team wins the game, and he's left with a lead intact.......If the bullpen blows up, loses the lead, and the team regains the lead and we win........Starting pitcher who pitched his ass off should get the W

[HollywoodLeo]

If you get out of a jam, there are no ER to worry about......

Not sure if you're agreeing with me here or not, but that's pretty much my point.

This is a peave of mine........I believe the starting pitcher should always get the W, if the team wins the game, and he's left with a lead intact.......If the bullpen blows up, loses the lead, and the team regains the lead and we win........Starting pitcher who pitched his ass off should get the W

agreed