Trust me, I really hate to say this.

[padrefanforever]

RF ? Uh....Wily Mo Pena is a corner OFer....we would be solving our OF issues in one swoop....this would allow us to sign
Counsell for SS
Loretta for 2nd
a Horse for the rotation
and a bench guy....giving us a look something like...

SS - Counsell
2nd- Loretta
1b - AGon
LF - ManRam
C - Piazza / Bard
RF - Wily Mo / Coco
CF - Cameron
3rd - Kouz
pitcher....

That's a formiddable offense on paper....bigtime

Peavy
CY
Schmidt/Menche
Hensley
Mulder/Lilly/2nd tier guy

Bullpen is set nicely

Bench...??

[OBBoltsFan]

I was just curious......they are hammering some former posters on the SOSD forum.......and Clipper OBB is one of them.......I found it interesting since the post they are laughing about is a sky is falling post very similar to the one he posted in here not too long ago..... So again I suggest to OBB......it's early, you DON'T know what our final roster will be and you clearly don't know that Moores is pocketing our money with no intention of spending on payroll...with that here is the post I'm speaking of....

I know it's early, but it's not too early to notice that the most valuable free agents are out of the market and we have yet to even make an offer and now are resorting to offering trades for a guy that's older and more annoying than the previous OF targets.

[FmrFresnan]

Unless the Padres make Khalil Greene part of the package for Manny, Counsell is going to be their 2nd baseman. I would love to have both Counsell and Loretta in the fold and I think it would benefit the Padres to see if the Sox would take Greene in the package. There's also mention in the UT that the Padres are talking to Mark Mulder's agent about a 1 year deal.

[padrefanforever]

I know it's early, but it's not too early to notice that the most valuable free agents are out of the market and we have yet to even make an offer and now are resorting to offering trades for a guy that's older and more annoying than the previous OF targets.

Too early to notice that we didn't factor into the insanity for certain guys, and the crazy contracts they received...of course not...

Too early to panic and call for the ownership's head on a platter....YES...

Too early to run around barking "the sky is falling, the sky is falling"...YES...

I posted that tidbit of yours from last year, in the hopes that you would see what you wrote, how far offbase you were, and realize that all is not lost, not even close to lost in fact.....and that things can change fast so don't give up.....

[HollywoodLeo]

Unless the Padres make Khalil Greene part of the package for Manny, Counsell is going to be their 2nd baseman.

or not...

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6214970

[FmrFresnan]

I can't help but wonder what broke that deal off with Counsell. I know he was a KT guy. There's still a lot of talk about Manny being traded on Saturday, but I think this is going to be another one of those Manny rumors that doesn't come true.

[OBBoltsFan]

Too early to notice that we didn't factor into the insanity for certain guys, and the crazy contracts they received...of course not...

Too early to panic and call for the ownership's head on a platter....YES...

Too early to run around barking "the sky is falling, the sky is falling"...YES...

I posted that tidbit of yours from last year, in the hopes that you would see what you wrote, how far offbase you were, and realize that all is not lost, not even close to lost in fact.....and that things can change fast so don't give up.....

Yes, it's so crazy for owners to dish out some of their profits that are being made by the very people they're "crazily" paying.

We should just make a rule that no player can get over 10 million per season, that way owners can just keep all the money instead and raise ticket prices while they're at it.

I sware, sometimes it's as if a lot of you guys really think you're smarter than these MLB owners; you think they're not making profit on top of dealing these huge contracts? Why do you think agents demand these contracts to be so large? It's called business; you make someone money, you want your share. These players are good players who will make their owners money, therefore they invest.

What a crazy concept, paying someone to make money for you.

[FmrFresnan]

Look, here's the facts that we know so far. The Padres have upwards on $30-$35m in payroll to spend and we've yet to see that money being spent. Sandy Alderson has come on the air and said they are going to be "aggressive" on the free agent market, but we're yet to see that as well. Until we start to see some indication of them being "aggressive", the questions are going to continue to be raised. Fans aren't the only ones who are questioning the front office. You remember some of the players, last season, we're saying they felt like the front office was "setting them up to fail".

[OBBoltsFan]

Too early to notice that we didn't factor into the insanity for certain guys, and the crazy contracts they received...of course not...

Too early to panic and call for the ownership's head on a platter....YES...

Too early to run around barking "the sky is falling, the sky is falling"...YES...

I posted that tidbit of yours from last year, in the hopes that you would see what you wrote, how far offbase you were, and realize that all is not lost, not even close to lost in fact.....and that things can change fast so don't give up.....

And nobody is yelling thesky is falling, I'm stating the facts: there is no reason we should not be participating in the free agent market. Claiming that the contracts are "crazy" is not a valid argument, for Moores along with all the other owners unanimously approved the system as it is right now so that THEY would make more profit and be able to SPEND more on their teams, hence the reason teams such as Toronto and Houston are spending with the big boys, as is Washington trying to.

John moores is a greedy, greedy man, and while that doesn't make the sky fall, it doesn't make me happy either.

[OBBoltsFan]

Look, here's the facts that we know so far. The Padres have upwards on $30-$35m in payroll to spend and we've yet to see that money being spent. Sandy Alderson has come on the air and said they are going to be "aggressive" on the free agent market, but we're yet to see that as well. Until we start to see some indication of them being "aggressive", the questions are going to continue to be raised. Fans aren't the only ones who are questioning the front office. You remember some of the players, last season, we're saying they felt like the front office was "setting them up to fail".

Hey there dude, why are you posting these "facts"? The cool thing to do these days is blindly support ownership and search for unsupportive excuses as to why they don't keep their claims, don't you know anything?

[padrefanforever]

They sky is falling, the sky is falling........chicken little chicken little.......ahhhhhhhhh ..... Moores the well known Philanthropist, and major contributor to the UCSD Cancer Research Center, is being called greedy again.....ahhhhhhh run and hide the world is ending.... its the offseason and nothing has been done.....ahhhhhh......

oh yah it's not even December yet.....

[padrefanforever]

Yes, it's so crazy for owners to dish out some of their profits that are being made by the very people they're "crazily" paying.

$70M payroll is doing just that....may not be as much as you want, but too bad, it's not up to you....

We should just make a rule that no player can get over 10 million per season, that way owners can just keep all the money instead and raise ticket prices while they're at it.

Tix prices will always go up....that's called inflation.....but you are right, MLB players contracts should either top out or be incentive based in order to assure performance. And yes the owner of a company should make as much as he/she possibly can. Thats why you OWN...

I sware, sometimes it's as if a lot of you guys really think you're smarter than these MLB owners; you think they're not making profit on top of dealing these huge contracts? Why do you think agents demand these contracts to be so large? It's called business; you make someone money, you want your share. These players are good players who will make their owners money, therefore they invest.

Don't "sware" it's not nice....especially after you spent time trying to correct a spelling error in a previous post, and especially in a sentence accusing people of thinking they are smarter than others....lol.....And if you honestly believe we should have been players in the Soriano sweepstakes which resulted in a contract of 8/138, then you clearly have no clue wtf you're talking about where the Padres are concerned...

What a crazy concept, paying someone to make money for you.

If what you say is true, then Moores is already doing this....so why would he want to fix what isn't broke?

Again.....like your post last year the sky isn't falling, you don't know what's truly going on, and while your concern is valid, you really should just ease up a little on the slanderous comments toward the ownership and FO.....at least until after the winter meetings are over.....

[OBBoltsFan]

Again.....like your post last year the sky isn't falling, you don't know what's truly going on, and while your concern is valid, you really should just ease up a little on the slanderous comments toward the ownership and FO.....at least until after the winter meetings are over.....

I'm not being slanderous, it's just ridiculous that you fail to see the greed within this organization. Moores approves ownership agreements to raise revnue and player contracts, then refuses to hand out big contracts claiming that he is against the very thing he voted for! Then we have fans like yourself supporting him with absolutely nothing to back it up.

The truth is yes; we should have been in the Soriano sweepstakes. If the damn nationals can be in it, we sure should also. Perhaps we would not have been able to sign him, but we should have been able to sign either him, Zito, ARam, or Lee, you're damn right we should have. I don't care if their contracts exceed their value from previous contracts given to perhaps even better players; that is ALSO called inflation.

Owners would NOT be handing out contracts twice as large as ours with the same team salaries UNLESS they were still making profits; what a concept, giving back to the fans, the same fans you promised you would throw scraps to in the first place.

And our payroll is not 70 million, sir; it is more on the lines of 45 million right now. Let that sink in, 45 MILLION. Now we can give half our team away for Manny, but he's only going to cost us more per season for the next few years than Soriano, lee, ARam, OR Zito would have, making even less sense.

Whatever, there's no way of getting through to people who support Moores. Just look at the facts, man; seriously, take an objective, outsider fan's perspective of our team, it's promises, and it's actions. It's obvious we're being screwed, and again, that does not mean the sky is falling, but it is bull**it.

[padrefanforever]

I'm not being slanderous, it's just ridiculous that you fail to see the greed within this organization. Moores approves ownership agreements to raise revnue and player contracts, then refuses to hand out big contracts claiming that he is against the very thing he voted for! Then we have fans like yourself supporting him with absolutely nothing to back it up.

There is a difference between not handing out a big contract, and not being stupid and handcuffing the franchise for years to come. So far that's all that would have happened. By the way......Signing Giles was a pretty big contract, Signing Hoffy was a pretty big contract, so don't act like it's never done....that's just being blinded by hatred IMO

The truth is yes; we should have been in the Soriano sweepstakes. If the damn nationals can be in it, we sure should also. Perhaps we would not have been able to sign him, but we should have been able to sign either him, Zito, ARam, or Lee, you're damn right we should have. I don't care if their contracts exceed their value from previous contracts given to perhaps even better players; that is ALSO called inflation.

How do you know we weren't in the Soriano sweepstakes? Got any facts? How do you know that Soriano didn't say flat out that he didn't want to play on the West coast? Oh wait......he did !!! And if you still believe that we should have been in the running for a 138M deal for anyone.....then there is just no chance of holding down a real conversation with you anymore.....

Owners would NOT be handing out contracts twice as large as ours with the same team salaries UNLESS they were still making profits; what a concept, giving back to the fans, the same fans you promised you would throw scraps to in the first place.

And our payroll is not 70 million, sir; it is more on the lines of 45 million right now. Let that sink in, 45 MILLION. Now we can give half our team away for Manny, but he's only going to cost us more per season for the next few years than Soriano, lee, ARam, OR Zito would have, making even less sense.

Yes we all know where it stands, while missing a LFer, 2bag, 2starters, and some bench players......Do you think we'll start the season without those pieces ? LOL...get real man.....payroll last year was over 70M, 69active, another 5-8 paying down past contracts.....SA said it would be around 70M again, but this time no past contracts weighing us down.....stop crying it's really getting old

Whatever, there's no way of getting through to people who support Moores. Just look at the facts, man; seriously, take an objective, outsider fan's perspective of our team, it's promises, and it's actions. It's obvious we're being screwed, and again, that does not mean the sky is falling, but it is bull**it.

What's bullshit is listening to what I now consider a fair weather fan, spout the same crap he spouted last year, and was clearly wrong then too.....FYI I've never said I was a Moores supporter, and have said on many occasions that I would like them to spend more also, but reality is a very different place than where those useless wishes dwell.....get used to it if you're not already.....as for saying that they don't keep their promises, thats just false, and bordering on a lie now. They promised a competitive team, not only have we gotten that, we gotten two division winners.......again, stop crying, it's old and tired

I can see why SOSD got tired of you..... woe is me, they aren't doing what I want, so therefore they are lying, cheats......

[OBBoltsFan]

I can see why SOSD got tired of you..... woe is me, they aren't doing what I want, so therefore they are lying, cheats......

Nobody got tired of me, I just couldn't control my emotions. I certainly didn't have any enemies over there, and I'm fairly positive an overwhelming majority of them would like to have me back. But if you feel that will help you make me look wrong, so be it.

Last year I was not complaining about ownership; I thought it was great we signed Giles, though i was greatly against eHoffman (as I still am, even after his impressive year. I believe the mony could have been spent elsewhere better). However, I was absolutely ecstatic over the Eaton trade, as the SOSD records will show, but I was against the Cameron trade and the Loretta trade (two for three ain't bad, since I was definitely wrong about the Nady trade probably).

But this season is different; of course I know we will not be going into the season without a LF or a starting 2Bman or few starting pitchers in our rotation, so why would you even imply that? You act like an asshole PadreFanForever, and I don't get it; I never insulted you, yet you continue to call me names such as "Chicken Little" or idiotic, or claim that everyone at SOSD ran me outta town or something. I'm sorry if you want to cling onto your beliefs that Moores is not screwing us so badly that it offends you if someone else differs in opinion, but from what I've seen, we have been screwed, and that is my opinion.

I believe we will put out a good team next year, probably one better than 06's. Is that good enough? NO. Absolutely not. When you have a team that won it's division and then gets over 30 million in free money to upgrade the next season, simply being better is completely intolerable, but unfortunately, that's all we're seemingly going to get.

Why must you settle for that, sir? Why is just being good or a little better good enough? Don't you want to win a championship? Don't you realize that all of that money could have been tremendous for us?
At this point, the only tolerable thing I can see us doing is trading Young or Hensley and Linebrink for Manny, and then signing Zito and Durham, which would then put us at our expected payroll. Will this happen? It is very possible, and if so, I will be relieved and take back my comments about Moores.

But what I will NOT take is our front office publicly saying that it owes no apologies and that it doesn't owe us any big name free agents when we were promised years ago that we would become a top ten market team, and the very least they can do is retain the previous year's salary when money is freed up instead of just pocketing it like I've claimed Moores would do for over three years now. All I'm saying is PROVE ME WRONG, PLEASE MOORES. I have stated that you are likely to do EXACTLY what you are currently doing for so long now and I've hoped so badly that you would prove me wrong, so much in fact that I made that last topic stating that I was wrong about this year's offseason and that we WERE going to spend some money. I went out and said that because Alderson stated that I, the fans, should not be worried and that we will be one of the most active teams.

I was so credulous to his words that I went out on a limb and publicly stated on these forums that it appeared that I was wrong, and that they were going to be active big name shoppers, only because they SAID theyw ere going to be big name shoppers. So far they haven't, and I am angry over that. I think it's great that you aren't, but I have heard too many lies and broken promises to believe them anymore. When your own players are complaining about ownership not caing enough, which has been the case multiple times throughout the past three seasons, there is obviously something not being done right or honestly.