Josh Barfield traded to the Indians

[Johndbr]

The has got to be the stupidest move I have seen today and I believe we are seeing the start of the implosion of this team. The only way for a team like the Pads to succeed is to build through their minor league prospects and they just tossed another one right out the door, just like they did Nady last year. Well I hope this finally puts the "who is anti youth movement" on the right back, Bochy is not here to blame for this stupid blunder and it might tip the balance on where Balsley goes, lord knows he wants to be in a place where he has good talent to work with, but he probably also wants to be in a place that wins too and the Pads are not looking too good for that. They are letting go our lead of man, trying to pick up power hitters to play in a pitcher ball park, letting go our best young talent, for who again?

Oh, boy, start watching your paper for good sales on booze folks, I think we are going to be doing a lot of drinking next year.

[padrefanforever]

Well if Balsey is worth a damn he'll realize that he hasn't lost anything that he'll be apart of, in fact he just gained a guy who has a high ceiling and is in desperated need of a "Balsey fix". If Darren is as good as we all believe, and he can get this kid on track....we may have another stud in the bullpen for years to come....and we're going to need that very very soon 'cause Hoffy isn't long for the game guys.....2 years tops

[OBBoltsFan]

Ok I find it completely stupid to say this AFTER ONE SEASON!!! Giles is not a good leadoff man so I can't see where you are coming from. That is one of the main needs for the Braves this offseason which is a leadoff man. You said Barfield strikes out too much and Giles strikes out more than him so you aren't making any sense. Giles doesn't even have that great of a OBP. Barfield has more speed, defense and will improve as a hitter but Giles is going in the opposite direction. And saying that you never claimed that Barfield will never hot over 15 to 20 homers is still saying he will never hit over 15 homers. Just because you put "to 20" doesn't change that. Barfield had a great rookie year hitting .280 and 13 homers and playing great defense. He is only 23 and WILL improve.

So, by your logic, claiming that someone won't hit more than 15 to 20 homeruns a season means that they won't hit more than 15 homeruns. I don't see where or how you could draw that conclusion.

Marcus Giles has a career OBP of over .360, and was as high as .390 before last season, but apparently that isn't a good on base percentage.

Again, since I guess you still don't understand: Barfield can;t leadoff because he swings at every first pitch and doesn't walk, therefore you must bat him somewhere at the bottom of the order. Barfield also strikes out too much, so he isn't very valuable at the bottom of the order. The fact that Marcus strikes out means little BECAUSE he CAN lead off, because he DOES walk a lot.

Brafield does not play better defense than him; perhaps they are equals, but Barfield certainly isn't better enough to mention. I also do not think Barfield is faster than Giles, though if he is, it's not by much.

Anyways, I never said Giles was my first option, btu having Giles and Kouz + Brown would be an upgrade over Barfield and whoever we'd likely have to give up for Giles, I'd imagine.

[OBBoltsFan]

I was simply making sure you got credit for that brilliant thought.....

Saying a player has reached their pinnacle after their rookie season is truly brilliant beyond comparison.....And even suggesting that a rookie who just hit 13 HR's can't hit 15-20, and is "AT THE PEAK OF HIS VALUE" should automatically open one up to being crucified.....Surely you must see how foolish of a statement this was.....you're essentially suggesting that Barfield had a career year as a rookie.......lol.......good god man

I don't see what all the "lol"ing is about. I never said he has peaked in performance, I said VALUE. Of course he is going to get better, but as of right now, coming off a decent rookie season, his value is at it's highest because he is EXPECTED to increase his PERFORMANCE. I am arguing that while he will perform better as he gets older, I do not believe he will improve enough to meritoriously justify the value we just got from him.

[OBBoltsFan]

The has got to be the stupidest move I have seen today and I believe we are seeing the start of the implosion of this team. The only way for a team like the Pads to succeed is to build through their minor league prospects and they just tossed another one right out the door, just like they did Nady last year. Well I hope this finally puts the "who is anti youth movement" on the right back, Bochy is not here to blame for this stupid blunder and it might tip the balance on where Balsley goes, lord knows he wants to be in a place where he has good talent to work with, but he probably also wants to be in a place that wins too and the Pads are not looking too good for that. They are letting go our lead of man, trying to pick up power hitters to play in a pitcher ball park, letting go our best young talent, for who again?

Oh, boy, start watching your paper for good sales on booze folks, I think we are going to be doing a lot of drinking next year.

Do you guys really think you know more about our organization than Towers and ALderson? You think that the entire 5 years that Towers has watched Barfield progress means nothing? You really think Barfield's going to blossom into, what, a .300 guy with 20+ homeruns and actually walks every now and then?

I think Alderson and Towers agree with me in the fact that while Bzrfield will develop into an above average second baseman, the demand for thirdbasemen is so high that we just got a great trade with Cleveland that they'd NEVER make had they not already had Marte.

Also, keep in mind that Kouzmanoff is the prototypical 3Bman for moneyball; he will probably never cost us as much as he's worth, since he isn't a 40 HR guy, but rather a 20 HR guy who will post OPS numbers over .800 consistently. I'd say that's more valuable than Barfield slapping singles in the 8 hole.

[Johndbr]

PFF, everywhere Balsley has been before here he has worked wonders with pitching staffs and ever since Balsley arived here he has done wonders with our pitchers, give me one reason why he should think it would be diffent else where? What exactly is the Padres offering him right now, except less money than their competitors? You combine that with stupid moves like this and there is no real reason for him to stay. If he could see a real shot at a WS win, something he could put on his resume that could pay off down the line, ya then there might be something to that, but right now we will be lucky to win our division again next year and he has other offers from other teams, probably for more money, why should he stay here, what do we have that they don't?

OBBoltsFan the only real shot this team, or any team like it has at long term success is building from their minors system and using the arbitration rules to keep their talent in town as long as possible, before the Yankee's or Redsox and other such teams flat out buy them out from under us, the only free agents we get, the big money teams flat out do not want or like Wells this year, we get them when they give up on the year and they still cost us a arm and a leg. We just gave away a possible future great player for next to nothing and no matter how you twist it, that is flat out stupid. Nady last year, Barfield this year throw in Burroughs for kicks and giggles and the fact that I liked him, how many of these players of this calibur do you think there is? Sooner or later you have to stop and say, "hey we got to stick with this kid and teach him to do what we want him to do" or we will be picking up other teams hand me downs forever and that is never a winning plan of attack.

John B.

[HollywoodLeo]

The has got to be the stupidest move I have seen today and I believe we are seeing the start of the implosion of this team.

I'd wait till the other shoe drops before I jump to this kind of conclusion.

The only way for a team like the Pads to succeed is to build through their minor league prospects and they just tossed another one right out the door,

Have you seen their drafts latley? I think they plan on that. It's not like they traded Barfield for some overaged vet...

just like they did Nady last year.

They traded Nady for Mike Cameron! You're telling me that wasn't a good move?

Nady's been decent at best. I'm so tired of listening to people complain about Nady.

Well I hope this finally puts the "who is anti youth movement" on the right back, Bochy is not here to blame for this stupid blunder and it might tip the balance on where Balsley goes, lord knows he wants to be in a place where he has good talent to work with, but he probably also wants to be in a place that wins too and the Pads are not looking too good for that. They are letting go our lead of man, trying to pick up power hitters to play in a pitcher ball park, letting go our best young talent, for who again?

I remember a year ago people were asking who this Adrian Gonzalez guy was. I can't remember how that deal turned out, care to refresh my memory?

Again, Barfield was not traded for overaged, useless vets.

Let's wait till the other shoe drops on this trade and see how this 3rd baseman and pitcher turn out before we start calling out management?

Oh, boy, start watching your paper for good sales on booze folks, I think we are going to be doing a lot of drinking next year.

It's the middle of November, the offseason's just getting started. Let's give it a month or two before we start making claims of armageaddeon.

[OBBoltsFan]

OBBoltsFan the only real shot this team, or any team like it has at long term success is building from their minors system and using the arbitration rules to keep their talent in town as long as possible, before the Yankee's or Redsox and other such teams flat out buy them out from under us, the only free agents we get, the big money teams flat out do not want or like Wells this year, we get them when they give up on the year and they still cost us a arm and a leg. We just gave away a possible future great player for next to nothing and no matter how you twist it, that is flat out stupid. Nady last year, Barfield this year throw in Burroughs for kicks and giggles and the fact that I liked him, how many of these players of this calibur do you think there is? Sooner or later you have to stop and say, "hey we got to stick with this kid and teach him to do what we want him to do" or we will be picking up other teams hand me downs forever and that is never a winning plan of attack.

John B.

I understand your viewpoint, but your underestimating the power of getting on base, something that is nearly impossible to teach and Barfield has always lacked. I also believe you're either underestimating the trade itself in that we picked up a very nice prospect who is THIS close to breaking out, or that you're not realizing that the Barfield trade was in quintessence a money ball trade, something that you're arguing is vital for our success. We traded a guy who is not going to produce many runs, neither by scoring them or hitting them in, for a guy with great potential and another who's been a good pitching prospect for years.

I've been talking with PadreHomer about the trade online, and he agrees that our fans are overvaluing our players simply because they're that: OUR players. If you look at Barfield's history from an objective point of view, you'd see that he really isn't very valuable at all. He is not a future all star, nor a future top echelon player at any single category. He is an average 2bman who has the potential of becoming good, and that's not worth a quality young 3bman and quality arm when 2bman pop out every season from every rock.

[HollywoodLeo]

Padre fans are notorious for overvaluing players.

prime examples?

X. Nady
Ben Johnson
Ollie Perez
Adam Eaton (I'm guilty here...)
to a degree, Khalil

[HollywoodLeo]

Sandy was interviewed on 1090 and asked about the trade and why they fealt Barfield was expendable.

He basically surmised that 2nd base is easier to fill than 3rd base is, and he thinks we found our "3rd baseman of the future"...but also went on to state that that doesn't neccesarily mean Kouzmenoff will be starting there next year. (ie. implying they may still try and bring someone else in that's proven for now.)

Sandy said that 2nd base is traditionally easier to fill and that he wouldn't be suprised if the Padres went through 5 or 6 2nd basemen between now and 10 years from now.

[padrefanforever]

Exactly......it wasn't because of anything Barfield didn't do for this team, he played a position that is easier to fill than 3rd base.....and an opportunity to get a possible future 3bag here presented itself and they took it.......Barfield will now go on to be a star in Cleveland instead of San Diego.....oh well....

[love_that_reefer]

So, by your logic, claiming that someone won't hit more than 15 to 20 homeruns a season means that they won't hit more than 15 homeruns. I don't see where or how you could draw that conclusion.

Marcus Giles has a career OBP of over .360, and was as high as .390 before last season, but apparently that isn't a good on base percentage.

Again, since I guess you still don't understand: Barfield can;t leadoff because he swings at every first pitch and doesn't walk, therefore you must bat him somewhere at the bottom of the order. Barfield also strikes out too much, so he isn't very valuable at the bottom of the order. The fact that Marcus strikes out means little BECAUSE he CAN lead off, because he DOES walk a lot.

Brafield does not play better defense than him; perhaps they are equals, but Barfield certainly isn't better enough to mention. I also do not think Barfield is faster than Giles, though if he is, it's not by much.

Anyways, I never said Giles was my first option, btu having Giles and Kouz + Brown would be an upgrade over Barfield and whoever we'd likely have to give up for Giles, I'd imagine.

First off, yes for someone to say they can't hit more than 15 homers means they can't hit for 15 homers. Just because you included the 20 means nothing. You added a little clause to your sentence but essentially you are saying he can't hit 15. Where are you getting lost?

You are the one who brought up strikeouts so I brought up that Giles strikes out more. Again where are you getting lost? He is going in the opposite direction offensively and is older than Barfield.

And no Giles is not a leadoff man. Ask any Braves fan out there. They struggled mightily since Furcal left. And who said Barfield was an ideal leadoff man? No one here did.

And yes Barfield is better than Giles defensively and yes he is faster. The fielding percentage and steals make my point extremely valid.

The final point is that HE WAS A ****ING ROOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is absolutley capable of hitting closer to .300 (he hit .280 HIS ROOKIE YEAR!) and hitting for more power. To give up on a guy who is only 23 for a guy who is unproven and 25 doesn't make for a good move. And for the last time, HE WAS A ****ING ROOKIE!!!

[OBBoltsFan]

Exactly......it wasn't because of anything Barfield didn't do for this team, he played a position that is easier to fill than 3rd base.....and an opportunity to get a possible future 3bag here presented itself and they took it.......Barfield will now go on to be a star in Cleveland instead of San Diego.....oh well....

By definition, being a "star", is being at least within the top five of your respective position. if Barfield was to ever become a star, he'd need to learn plate discipline, develop an eye, and hit more homeruns. If these were all collectively possible, Barfield would still be a Padre.

Barfield will go on to be a solid starting second baseman, but I do not believe he will be a star, or even all star for that mattr, and I strongly believe that Alderson and Towers would agree.

But hey, what do I know? I've just repeated the exact reasons why thet rade was done, and why it was indeed a good trade before Alderson even commented on it, while strike3's GMs have called my explinations stupid.

[OBBoltsFan]

First off, yes for someone to say they can't hit more than 15 homers means they can't hit for 15 homers. Just because you included the 20 means nothing. You added a little clause to your sentence but essentially you are saying he can't hit 15. Where are you getting lost?

You are the one who brought up strikeouts so I brought up that Giles strikes out more. Again where are you getting lost? He is going in the opposite direction offensively and is older than Barfield.

And no Giles is not a leadoff man. Ask any Braves fan out there. They struggled mightily since Furcal left. And who said Barfield was an ideal leadoff man? No one here did.

And yes Barfield is better than Giles defensively and yes he is faster. The fielding percentage and steals make my point extremely valid.

The final point is that HE WAS A ****ING ROOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is absolutley capable of hitting closer to .300 (he hit .280 HIS ROOKIE YEAR!) and hitting for more power. To give up on a guy who is only 23 for a guy who is unproven and 25 doesn't make for a good move. And for the last time, HE WAS A ****ING ROOKIE!!!

I never said Giles doesn;t strike out too much, i jsut said that if he was to be our leadoff hitter, his striking out wouldn't matter. Again, and for the last time man, BECAUSE BARFIELD CANNOT LEAD OFF, HIS SWINGING AT FIRST PITCHES AND NOT WALKING OR HITTING FOR GOOD POWER MAKES HIM EXPENDABLE.

Nobody is arguing that Barfield will improve; he just won't become a GREAT twobagger, but he will be good. The 3B position is much harder to fill, thus more valuable. Both teams improved, both teams are happy.

And seriously sir, it is absolutely ridiculous that you are misconstruing my claim that Bafield will not hit more than 15 to 20 homeruns into "BArfield will never hit 15 homeruns". Seriously, just be quiet, you're not retarded and know damn well what "he will never hit more than 15 to 20 homeruns" means: it means he will not hit more than 15 to 20 homeruns, damn it. I don't understand why you guys are so intent on pissing people off.

And Barfield had, what, two more steals than Giles got in the apst two seasons each before this one while he was nagging an injury? How does that make him much faster? And Barfield's defensive percentage was barely better than Giles' career percentage, which was ALSO higher his rookie and second season, so who's to say Barfield's might not drop a little either?

And AGAIN, I never said Giles was a GOOD leadoff hitter, I said he CAN bat leadoff, which makes him a lot more valuable to THIS team than Barfield. I have never stated that Barfield isn't good, because he is certainly a servicable second baseman even at this young age; he jsut isn't as valuable to us as Kauz and Brown AND a second baseman that can lead off are, and with the departure of Barfield, all of these are now possible.

[HollywoodLeo]

wow

OBBF agrees with this trade?

I'm neutral until I see who they replace Josh with, but this does suprise me to some degree.