Trade Greene for Hall straight up

[General]

Hall's OPS: .879
Renteria's OPS: .881

Yeah, not even close

[OBBoltsFan]

Wow, Lugo's stats are impressive also (though he's had a good number of fewer at bats). I might be way off when looking so highly of Hall, I guess?

And Carlos Guillen has better stats than Hall and Tejada. I stand absolutely corrected on this, nice finds Fishercat.

I guess it'd be safer to call Hall a top 5 shortstop, give or take. Still enough with Ensbrg/Ramirez to maker our offense around the 6th or 7th best I think

[General]

No, you're right in saying Hall is a good shortstop.

Which makes your trade proposal more and more ridiculous.

[OBBoltsFan]

Hall's OPS: .879
Renteria's OPS: .881

Yeah, not even close

I was looking on at specific players' stats and had forgotten about them without even checking their stats. I figured Renteria, Lugo and Guillen were all in the low .800's, sorry.

[General]

Not to mention Renteria is getting on base at 83 points higher than Hall and plays superior defense at short.

[OBBoltsFan]

No, you're right in saying Hall is a good shortstop.

Which makes your trade proposal more and more ridiculous.

Please elaborate. What is ridiculous about a team trading a guy that will NOT sign with them next year for a guy who is also young and talanted but cheap and good through '08?

[General]

The part where Milwaukee gets ripped off, for one.

[OBBoltsFan]

Not to mention Renteria is getting on base at 83 points higher than Hall and plays superior defense at short.

I was saying OFFENSE; defense does not come into play. And I'd take slugging over ON Base anyday, since OBPs can be raised through experience, slugging can only be raised through illegal substances usually. Your post actually strengthens my argument.

EDIT= You have to udnerstand that Hall's nubmer 8 in slugging in all of baseball at only 26 years old and playing the SS position, a position that does not have a lot of sluggers. The fact alone that he is 8th in slugging is pretty unbelievable, and his OBP will only raise in time just as every other young player's does (Khalil's will too, to be fair).

[General]

Oh yeah, defense doesn't matter.

Why doesn't Frank Thomas play 1B then?

[Fishercat]

An offense is only as good as the runs it produces and how it takes advantage of the field it plays on. If the Padres would play 81 games in Shea Stadium or Comerica Park or in Arizona or Arlington, then fine. But when a team plays in the same stadium year-in, and year-out, and half their games are in their stadium, it's a meaningful split that must be considered, although I think the sample size (45-50 games) is too small to be meaningful for team stats this year.

Going by position at this point

Catcher: Piazza/Bard is most certainly a Top 5 duo at this point, I think both of them (based purely on performance in SD and not Bard's suckassness in Fenway) have been Top 7-8 catchers so far this year.

First Base: Adrian Gonzalez, so far, has been a borderline Top 10 1B. If you include DH/1B's, he falls a little bit to 12th-14th or so. I can't see him as much higher than tenth, as I could name 10 1B's I think are better than him

Second Base: Josh Barfield's likely a Top Half of the League 2B

SS: Bill Hall was covered (3rd to 5th on this year's performance)

3B: Beltre/Ramirez/Ensberg: Eh, Ensberg's been good this year although I don't understand why Houston would trade him. Ramirez and Beltre have been underwhelming

OF: Giles, Roberts, Cameron
Cameron's probably been a Top 5-8 CF this year
Roberts may be a fringe Top Half LF
Giles? Meh, in the throng of good and not great RF.

That, combined with a shitty hitting park and the lack of a single threatening bat doesn't add up to a Top 5-6 offense

[OBBoltsFan]

The part where Milwaukee gets ripped off, for one.

Do you not watch Khalil Greene? He's a defensive wonder, and has very nice power and is the same age as Hall but CHEAPER. It's Hall for a half a season or Khalil for three, do you not understand that? When players are being dealt as rentals, IE: Hall, they are cheaper in trades.

[Fishercat]

Also, I'd be a bit worried (not much, he'd still be a Top 5-6 SS) about the fact that he seems to tee off of the minority of pitchers while putting up good but not fantastic stats against the majority, plus he's slightly better at home

[OBBoltsFan]

Oh yeah, defense doesn't matter.

Why doesn't Frank Thomas play 1B then?

The argument wasn't about defense, man, it was about how efficient it would make our offense. I mean, did you really not notice that?

[General]

Defensive wonder?

I thought you just said defense doesn't matter.

[OBBoltsFan]

An offense is only as good as the runs it produces and how it takes advantage of the field it plays on. If the Padres would play 81 games in Shea Stadium or Comerica Park or in Arizona or Arlington, then fine. But when a team plays in the same stadium year-in, and year-out, and half their games are in their stadium, it's a meaningful split that must be considered, although I think the sample size (45-50 games) is too small to be meaningful for team stats this year.

Going by position at this point

Catcher: Piazza/Bard is most certainly a Top 5 duo at this point, I think both of them (based purely on performance in SD and not Bard's suckassness in Fenway) have been Top 7-8 catchers so far this year.

First Base: Adrian Gonzalez, so far, has been a borderline Top 10 1B. If you include DH/1B's, he falls a little bit to 12th-14th or so. I can't see him as much higher than tenth, as I could name 10 1B's I think are better than him

Second Base: Josh Barfield's likely a Top Half of the League 2B

SS: Bill Hall was covered (3rd to 5th on this year's performance)

3B: Beltre/Ramirez/Ensberg: Eh, Ensberg's been good this year although I don't understand why Houston would trade him. Ramirez and Beltre have been underwhelming

OF: Giles, Roberts, Cameron
Cameron's probably been a Top 5-8 CF this year
Roberts may be a fringe Top Half LF
Giles? Meh, in the throng of good and not great RF.

That, combined with a shitty hitting park and the lack of a single threatening bat doesn't add up to a Top 5-6 offense

I agree with everything you've said here; a very fair assessment, except that you can't let the ballpark effect it. I'm talking about where our offense would rank purely on paper.