NL Cy Young: Is it really even a question who is the leading candidate?

[Providence A's]

OMG one night means EVERYTHING! Let's pick a moment in time to prove our point:

On September 9th Clemens lost, pitched 3 innings, giving up 5 walks, 5 hits, 5 earned runs, and 2 homers. His ERA was 15.00 and his WHIP was 3.33. Surely, he is a horrible pitcher and shouldn't even be in the pros

[CincyRedsFan30]

I never said that. You're not getting it...again. You were laughing because I mentioned his seasonal ERA as 2.59 now, acting as though the ERA doesn't matter much. Tonight was another example of his WHIP not being as good either. He gave up a ton of baserunners and paid for it. His ERA is not as good as Clemens' ERA for a reason.

[Providence A's]

I don't get it?

whatever gets you through the night

[CincyRedsFan30]

You misconstrued what my point was.

[love_that_reefer]

Maybe because Clemens hasn't pitched as much.

[CincyRedsFan30]

The Carpenter threw another gem out there again tonight:

6 IP, 9 H, 5 ER, 1 BB, 6 K

His ERA on the year is now 2.83.

[MarinersFan87]

Clemens hasn't pitched a game in 10 days. So we should assume that he would've put up numbers like his last outing: 5.2 IP, 4 ER. Shame on Carpenter and Willis for giving up runs in their last start instead of getting hurt like Clemens.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Clemens hasn't pitched a game in 10 days. So we should assume that he would've put up numbers like his last outing: 5.2 IP, 4 ER. Shame on Carpenter and Willis for giving up runs in their last start instead of getting hurt like Clemens.

You should assume that based on the fact that Clemens' ERA/WHIP were lower to begin with than both of them. The chances of them giving up a bunch of Runs was much more likely than him.

Clemens' numbers covering the whole season have been better and they are even better now than before.

[missionhockey21]

Update on Carp's stats.

Carpenter
ERA: 2.83
W-L: 21-5 (RS: 5.42)
IP: 242.2 IP
CG: 7
AVG: .231
K/9: 7.93
WHIP: 1.06
XBH: 67
OBP: .273
SLG: .351
OPS: .623

Key: ERA: Earned Run Average. W-L: Win Loss Record. RS: Run Support While Pitching. IP: Innings pitched. AVG: Opponents batting average against. K/9: Strikeouts per 9 Innings. WHIP: Walks+Hits/Innings Pitched. XBH: Extra base hits allowed. OBP: On Base Percentage Against. SLG: Slugging Percentage Allowed. OPS: On-Base Percentage+Slugging Percentage Against.

[ejk]

I offer this challenge to CincyRedsFan30 and all othrs who die by stats. (Stats kill, winning lives). I will play you a best of seven series. My pitchers win four games, your guys can win 0, 1, 2, or 3 games. You can have, use and have an edge in any stat you desire and in any combination. Your guys can have the edge in hitting, fielding, all the pitching stats but wins. And in the final result my guys win, and are the best. With the desired result of the team winning, a pitcher can do no more for his team than to win. Any other stat is meaningless compared to winning. Stats compared to winning, particularly ERA vs.wins is like comparing a wooden nickel to a hundred dollar bill. Clemens is not even the best pitcher on his team, much less deserving a Cy Young this year. My vote is Carpenter, with Willis a good second. Statisticians out there, keep your head buried in your stats, and the world will pass you by.

[DirtyKash]

Oh geezus Christ!!! Did Joek just register a new name here?

[Hmark6]

Oh geezus Christ!!! Did Joek just register a new name here?

Yes. Both names should be banned.

Whats great about this post is that Joe trashes stats, and then uses a stat (wins) to set up a ridiculous premise where only he can win.

"OKay, we play 7 games and I win 4 of them, you can win up to 3. So who's pitchers are better?"

[love_that_reefer]

Despite Carpenter's numbers last night, the more important thing is that he kept his team in the game. Clemens has pitched almost four game less than Carp and Willis so he is more likely to have fewer numbers. Its between Willis and Carp.

[Providence A's]

Clemens will not win period.

[Saber]

As of right now, Clemens is still the NL leader in VORP, followed by Andy Pettite, Carpenter, and Dontrelle Willis. Clemens also leads in Support Neutral Value added.