NL Cy Young: Is it really even a question who is the leading candidate?

[love_that_reefer]

Giving it to him because of a .06 lead in WHIP is silly.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Giving it to him because of a .06 lead in WHIP is silly.

I don't care how close it is. He has a better ERA AND WHIP. Those two statistics are the most important and he leads both of them.

[love_that_reefer]

I look at all the stats and not just ERA and WHIP and the microscopic leads. Carpenter has better OVERALL numbers and that's what you need to look at.

[Providence A's]

I don't care how close it is. He has a better ERA AND WHIP. Those two statistics are the most important and he leads both of them.

By that logic the MVP should be based on batting average and on base percentage...or any 2 categories of your choosing if you will

[CincyRedsFan30]

I look at all the stats and not just ERA and WHIP and the microscopic leads. Carpenter has better OVERALL numbers and that's what you need to look at.

You look at stats. that don't show how good the player is. That's up to you. I will not yield on this topic.

[CincyRedsFan30]

By that logic the MVP should be based on batting average and on base percentage...or any 2 categories of your choosing if you will

I look at the two that show the most about a pitcher's overall viability to help a team over a career as a starting pitcher.

[love_that_reefer]

Pitching more innings and shutouts helps a team more than a guy who has great numbers but can only go 6 innings.

[CincyRedsFan30]

It's easier to go 9 innings when you have a big league pretty often.

Clemens gets pulled sometimes because he has a 1-0 lead after 7 IP. The Manager has to be more cautious with little offensive talent displayed by the team to not put Clemens into a position where he can even possibly give up the lead. Look at what the Astros' offense has done for Clemens in many of his starts.

[love_that_reefer]

Riiiiiight. Or it might have more to do with a pitch count. Carpenter has less walks in more innings.

[CrazyEights]

The Manager has to be more cautious with little offensive talent displayed by the team to not put Clemens into a position where he can even possibly give up the lead.

Why would Clemens be put into that position? He's the best pitcher in the league...right? He should be CY Young...right? Then wouldn't he be your best option in the later innings. It's a lot easier for a pitcher to give up runs in the later innings when he's tired and nearing 100 pitches or more. Sorry, but I'd rather have that guy that can go late into games and can take the pressure off your pen, than a guy that only goes 6 or 7 innings.

[CincyRedsFan30]

The Astros have Brad Lidge who isn't exactly an easy pitcher to face. They aren't going to take a chance at losing games that they only lead 1-0. The Cardinals are rarely in that position, so Carpenter has more leeway.

Clemens has the better stats.

[Providence A's]

Clemens does not have the better stats.

Carpenter leads Clemens in more stats than Clemens leads Carpenter. Therefore Carpenter has the better stats.

Carpenter has beaten Clemens twice...if Clemens was better, then he would have won, right?

[CincyRedsFan30]

You are talking about small sample size now. That's not a good way(and has been proven over and over again) to evaluate a pitcher.

Clemens leads in ERA and WHIP, which shows the most about a pitcher than anything.
If someone tried to predict the careers of two pitchers using ERA/WHIP trends while others used other numbers, the individual who looked at the ERA/WHIP trends would be right more often. Those stats. have been proven as the most valuable through analysis.

[Providence A's]

.03 is not a significant difference in WHIP and therefore does not count. Clemens WHIP would no doubt go up if he pitched as many innings as Carpenter. Clemens really only leads in 1 category by a large margin and that is ERA. Leading in 1 category does not justify him winning the Cy Young.

[missionhockey21]

Just an update on the stats that I used to support my opinion. Not meant to start debate, just following the stats up.

(Italicized teal text indicates who has the advantage for the particular category. Blue text indicates a tie.)
Carpenter
ERA: 2.42
W-L: 21-4 (RS: 5.25)
IP: 230.1 IP
CG: 7
AVG: .220
K/9: 7.93
WHIP: 1.00
XBH: 58
OBP: .261
SLG: .331
OPS: .593

Clemens
ERA: 1.77
W-L: 12-7 (RS: 3.67)
IP: 199.2 IP
CG: 1
AVG: 1.89
K/9: 7.93
WHIP: .97
XBH: 35
OBP: .252
SLG: .270
OPS: .591

Key: ERA: Earned Run Average. W-L: Win Loss Record. RS: Run Support While Pitching. IP: Innings pitched. AVG: Opponents batting average against. K/9: Strikeouts per 9 Innings. WHIP: Walks+Hits/Innings Pitched. XBH: Extra base hits allowed. OBP: On Base Percentage Against. SLG: Slugging Percentage Allowed. OPS: On-Base Percentage+Slugging Percentage Against.