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Thread: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

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    Past his age-27 peak Saber's Avatar
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    OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    By Sabermetrician

    (Ed.-Whoever put that OOTP graphic in the articles thread, bravo. I want a bigger version of that.)

    We've covered how to run a pitching staff, specifically, into the ground with workloads that would kill actual men. But now that you have a winning staff, how do you score the runs to support them?

    A Useful Bat

    I don't need to tell you to have the best batters possible. Unfortunately, that's the hardest part. Player acquisition is a difficult beast to tame, and the subject of another article. But what makes a useful bat? Let's look at each component of offensive ratings.

    Batting Average

    BA is the driving force in the value of all players, real or simulated. Anywhere from half to most of a players value is in his BA. This applies to the ability to get on base as well as power. Thus, a player who cannot hit for at least some minimal average is of no use at the major league level. Each sim league establishes the minimal rating where a player can hit for a sustainable average. In the Strike 3 Sim League, the minimal BA rating is 6. Case in point:

    Tony "Stretch" Rodriguez (Note the huge variance in good and bad years. Tony can swing hard, but can also power a small town with the wind he produces.)

    Unfortunately, average is the statistic most prone to fluctuation. Look at Tony again. He's all over the damn place. Fortunately, OOTP allows for BAs to stay high on high-contact players fairly consistently with the right support. If a player can hit for average consistently enough, he has value even with the lack of secondary skills. Case in point:

    John Woodmansee

    Gap Power

    Hitting to the gaps, properly, is simply the ability to hit doubles. OOTP, for some reason, differentiates this ability from homerun power. This means that a player can lace line drives into the gaps all day without poking them out,

    Luis Llanes

    or touch second base only when he muscles it over the fence.

    Tom "Dynamite" Loose

    The thing to remember is that gap power can give a player value even when he doesn't hit bombs, as in the case of Llanes, or hurt the value of an otherwise complete hitter, as with Loose. Don't ignore it.

    Homerun Power

    Homeruns are largely intuitive to you by now. The more, the better.

    Discipline/Eye

    Now, most of you would probably think that this is most important rating to me. You'd be wrong. Batting average is the most important, with power second. Batting eye, while vital in real life, is almost a tertiary concern in OOTP. Discipline can be extremely valuable to a player when at the highest level. Look at the walk leaders in you league, and they'll always be 9s or 10s. But discipline doesn't guarantee that a player gets on base. Take a look again at Tony Rodriguez and Tom Loose. Both have a 10 eye, but Loose has a career .399 OBP in contrast to Rodriguez's .339 OBP. OBP is in part driven by BA and power. The lack of those things minimizes a player's ability to draw walks. Having walks doesn't make you succeed, but piles on to value created by other means. Conversely, you can succeed without drawing walks, but it's tough.

    Avoid Ks

    Now here is a rating probably ignored by most, but possessing probably a huge amount of value if utilized correctly. While Contact is the ability to hit, Avoid Ks is the ability to maximize contact. A player with low Avoid Ks doesn't get to make the good contact nearly as often as a player with a higher Avoid Ks rating, even if the Contact rating is the same. Go back to Luis Llanes. Wonder how he hits at all with no discipline or homerun power? It's that Avoid Ks rating that keeps him going. Ever wonder why Tony Rodriguez hits .200 when he has a sustainable Contact, and tons of power and plate disicipline? His Avoid Ks is low enough that the whiffs pile up to ruin him. Do not underestimate the value of not striking out.

    Stealing Bases

    Done efficiently, stealing bases can add value to a player otherwise regarded as unimportant. The level of efficiency needed to make steals worth the effort varies from league to league, but you should adjust the efficiency needed up as the run-scoring increases in the league. Generally, if a guy can't be at least 66% successful, he shouldn't run. Rarely, you have a basepath commando so good that he takes runs himself into being a great player.

    Paul "The Fireman" Galeana (The awesomest nickname ever.)

    In closing: You can't hit a homerun without swinging the bat.

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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    I like it Saber. This mention of how strong BA is for your players is exactly where I found myself losing at a high rate. I had a lot of studs with decent role players. Pitchers pitching above their abilities. But my BA tore me up. I was near the bottom of the league for two years with a very solid team. Last year, I almost made the playoffs. But my defining cancer was the lack of contact.

    Now I am rebuilding again and will have to focus on contact much more than discipline. Thanks for the tips again man! Too bad my opposing GMs get the same treatment.

    +rep, DIGG, delicious, YB, and I am trying facebook as well.

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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    Not sure who has seen this yet. Just wanted to make sure everyone got the chance tolearn how to beat me in OOTP. I never lose. Ever.

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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    Very nice article, +rep and digg...good points on the ratings.
    I did a lot of good things as a sim league GM.

    Ah, give me something clever to say here.

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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    I am a big believer in discipline, obviously discipline without contact won't lead to much, but in my years of running the league and years beyond that of just being in leagues as a GM I've always found personally that its easier for a player to bump up from 5 to 7 in contact than discipline. And with the heavy weight most put onto just contact and power, a lot of times there is some quality talent that is overlooked in FA or whatever with high discipline (9-10) but very average contact and power (typically 5.) While it's doubtful that you would be able to develop your next superstar from that, those are perfect examples of project players who look a lot more realized in terms of overall talent with a boost than most other project players. Eye doesn't count for everything, but I can speak from experience that when you get a few cheap above average contact and plus discipline players to play the role of table setters for your star hitters with .380+ OBP or some average contact, above average power and plus discipline hitters at the bottom of the lineup for surprise pop and decent OBP (ratings like 5-7-9), both can be effective lineup fillers, more so than a lot of people I think is willing to give credit.

    But Saber is pretty much dead on with his assessment, like in real baseball, contact is the driving force and while the other talents all go into making a quality ballplayer, contact absolutely has to be a motivation when constructing a lineup.

    Nice article buddy.
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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    I love the fact that Vlad's player page is the picture for the article. Nice article, by the way, I must say I agree with the jist of your backing. Eye is prolly my favorite rating, by the way, hence Vlad, Scott Brown, and LaChance.
    "Players can't get better over time." -GiantsFanatic

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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    OBP>BA . You cant score without getting on base . Anyways good article Saber couldnt you spread the wealth a bit and put the leading triples man in the history of baseball in there .

    Great Article, agreed with a large part of it.

    I wish Ralph Lubin, Rob Bowen, or Bryan Bass were still in the league to show exceptions to every rule in the book . LoL.
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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    I like walks the most, personally. I'm 2nd, 5th, and 6th in each league... but it helps most in triple play because my offense is horrible on paper but decent enough to win some games.

    I'm almost shocked that Riddick didn't come into play with this article.
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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    sucks that OOTP doesn't allow for a hitter's excellent plate discipline/eye rating to compensate for his subpar ability to make contact with the bat.

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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    Actually... it does, it's just not consistent at all. A 5/6 contact and 9/10 discipline player has the potential to have great seasons (relative to their overall potential of course), mediocre and then piss-poor. They aren't bad players at all to find on the cheap and to use, but you shouldn't rely on them to carry your offense unless they have exceptional power to at least slug their way towards somewhat effective run production.

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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    T-Rod is a pure tease, I counted on him so much to repeat his career season and I got burned.

    I like to get Contact and Power the most with Discipline close behind, Avoid K's and Gap Power would be on the last of my list of importance for the ratings.

    For Discipline and Avoid K's, I try to get one of the ratings high with the other at least 5, no less than 4.

    for a pure Contact hitter look at 2B Larry Jackson, he won the Rookie of the Year on batting avg alone with a .328 avg. He's that damn good of a hitter, no power, no Discipline, and barely any Avoid K's. Of course he's strictly a batter who only faces Right-Hand Pitchers.
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  12. #12

    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    Brian Levan's lived on contact, except for 2019.

    And go-go Gales
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    Then out of fairness to the others you will be Slagathor.

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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    Quote Originally Posted by missionhockey21 View Post
    Actually... it does, it's just not consistent at all. A 5/6 contact and 9/10 discipline player has the potential to have great seasons (relative to their overall potential of course), mediocre and then piss-poor. They aren't bad players at all to find on the cheap and to use, but you shouldn't rely on them to carry your offense unless they have exceptional power to at least slug their way towards somewhat effective run production.
    We could re name this post the "I'm Shamelessly Plugging Will Daniels So Someone Deals Me a 4 Star Prospect" ..perhaps
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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    I've yet to meet an opposing GM who prefers power to contact, and it pisses me off to no end. **** OOTP. If OOTP makes it no secret as to what is their driving force to hitting, and there's no substitute to it, like in real baseball with the ability to draw walks, why even try at all?

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    Re: OOTP Baseball: Winning Fake Baseball the Saber Way

    Very nice article.

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