2006 NL MVP: You Decide

[CincyRedsFan30]

I think it's a case of him using "feelings" to evaluate future performance.

I think he's a master in that area.

Some GMs ONLY look at areas such as PECOTA projections and other metrics, but I don't buy that.

I like a mixture of looking at ACTUAL results of players and feelings, with SOME stats like PECOTA just THROWN in for good measure.

Perhaps guys like Paul DePodesta should have taken notice to Jocketty Methodology. Your team is lucky to have a GM who seems to be a bit better now. It will still take some time to completely clean up the mess left by DePodesta.

[CincyRedsFan30]

I have to say, I'm surprised at how badly that deal has turned out for Jocketty (the Mulder one). Mulder hadn't impressed me before that much, but Beane absolutely ripped him to this point over the two years: a superior SP (younger, cheaper, probably better), a nice RP, and a great hitting prospect. For someone who has a track record like Jocketty (who has been fantastic over his career), you don't usually see that. It's like Terry Ryan letting Ortiz go, a rare bad move.

Not even the best are perfect.

Seriously though, I think Jocketty made that move out of desperation. Perhaps it wasn't a wise one, but he really wanted/needed another starter in the rotation at the time because the pressure to win in St. Louis is huge. He thought he was getting someone who could make an immediate impact and the team could keep around for a while.

Unfortunately for him, the plan went awry.

[Fishercat]

I wouldn't be so fast to bash Depo. The Dodgers two best SPs came in the Depo moves, Kent and Drew have been pretty nice players as well.

[Fishercat]

Trust me, I am a fan of a GM who loves those impulse moves. Sometimes they work (Nomar for Cabs and Mienty) and sometimes they don't (Freddy Sanchez for Jeff Suppan/Scott Sauerbeck). I can see why he liked Mulder, I just never got good vibes from him. Of course, he was notorious for being hit or miss against the Sox.

[CincyRedsFan30]

I wouldn't be so fast to bash Depo. The Dodgers two best SPs came in the Depo moves, Kent and Drew have been pretty nice players as well.

While those are some good players, he certainly didn't make enough to make the team good enough to win consistently. I think they have a GM who is heading in a positive direction now. I didn't get that feeling with DePodesta at all.

[realmofotalk]

Signing Lowe and Drew to huge contracts were bizarre moves for someone who used to serve as Billy Beane's right hand man. I believe DePodesta was in over his head with the owner's checkbook. DePo's signings resemble more like Jocketty's methodology in buying the players because of the pressure to win.

[DirtyKash]

Cardinals might not even make the playoffs the way things are going right now for them (6 straight losses) with Houston right on their tail (6 straight wins). Let's give the Cards 1 win in the last 6 games and they would finish with an 80-81 record, Houston could very well keep on playing this well and finish 82-80 or even 81-81 (which would force St. Louis to go play that makeup game). Even with 2 wins in their last 6 games (improbable), the Cards would end up at 81-80 and could likely miss the postseason. This whole Cards slump is a bad showing for Pujols' MVP case, imo. Meanwhile, Howard has his Phillies at 82-74, tied for the wild card. Great showing for Howard's MVP case.

[Fishercat]

I honestly don't think Depo was given a chance to get the team going in right direction, and really, Coletti's guys have done the job too (very surprising to me, although Lugo surprisingly busted so far).

[love_that_reefer]

Cardinals might not even make the playoffs the way things are going right now for them (6 straight losses) with Houston right on their tail (6 straight wins). Let's give the Cards 1 win in the last 6 games and they would finish with an 80-81 record, Houston could very well keep on playing this well and finish 82-80 or even 81-81 (which would force St. Louis to go play that makeup game). Even with 2 wins in their last 6 games (improbable), the Cards would end up at 81-80 and could likely miss the postseason. This whole Cards slump is a bad showing for Pujols' MVP case, imo. Meanwhile, Howard has his Phillies at 82-74, tied for the wild card. Great showing for Howard's MVP case.

Anyone following baseball should know the Cards recent troubles is not a lack of offense but a bullpen. Cards could and should have won 3 of 4 from Houston but couldn't close the deal. This would make his case stronger since Carpenter has been the only pitcher and Pujols has carried this team from day one. It should also shut the mouths of those who said the Cards had an easy season. Bull ****ing Shit!!! Whoever said Duncan has been there for most of the season is sorely mistaken.

[love_that_reefer]

Shit?
Bonds....2003......130 Games EXACTLY.....MVP Award
Or am I dreaming?

...but that's beside the point. Pujols will play 143 games this year. Nice number since Bonds also won when he played 143 games in 2002...this is what Bonds did...

.370 .582 .799 1.381 (46 HR and 110 RBI) Won MVP
.314 .394 .561 .955 (34 HR and 127 RBI) Pujols finished 2nd


Pujols is nowhere near blowing away the competition like that...
.316 .421 .673 1.094 (46 HR and 129) Pujols
.332 .418 .627 1.045 (58 HR and 143) Howard

Yeah you got me on that one. Point is and has been that you seem to think Howard has been the best OVERALL this year which myself and others have shown otherwise. That is the wholepoint we are making. Both have been huge for their teams but one is better than the other one. And your weak argument about defense holds no water as everyone knows Howard is extremely weak at first compared to Pujols just by watching them play. To say first isn't a defensive position when they handle the ball more than most is just false. Ask Aramis Ramerz about that sit as his numbers amazingly got better when he was throwing to Derek Lee.

[albbla2000mu]

I've had enough, no reason to continue to convince anyone. We will let the votes speak for themselves. Here on the forum and in real life. Enough said.

[Looshius]

How about this, post all-star break stats for both players:

Howard: .363, 30 HR, 74 RBI, .508 OBP, 1.296 OPS.
Pujols: .340, 17 HR, 54 RBI, .422 OBP, 1.043 OPS.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Pujols injured before the all-star break? How can Howard not be the MVP? He has gotten on base in more than half his plate appearances for half a season. That's just ridiculous, not to mention the lopsidedness of all the statistics during that time period when you compare Howard to anybody. Pujols has been great, Howard has been absolutely unstoppable.

[love_that_reefer]

Yay another one half MVP voter! Maybe you and abba should get a room. Howard could very well win it but that doesn't make him better than Albert which we all know to be true. Howard and his 170 SOs show that he is stoppable.

[albbla2000mu]

Simple Math...

Howard 1st half (W)< Pujols 1st half (X)
Howard 2nd half (Y) > Pujols 2nd half (Z)

The difference between y-z is greater than the difference of w-x. You do the math and get back to me when you understand what it means to miss 2.5 weeks of games.

[Looshius]

Yay another one half MVP voter! Maybe you and abba should get a room. Howard could very well win it but that doesn't make him better than Albert which we all know to be true. Howard and his 170 SOs show that he is stoppable.

I can't argue against the fact that Pujols is the more talented all around player, because it's pretty obvious. All I'm saying is that MVP is based on who had the better all around season and who helped their team more, and I am thoroughly convinced the answer is Howard. I'll take 12 homeruns and 15 rbi's over 12 points in batting average any day.

And you want first half stats? Fine:

Howard: 28, 71, .278, .923
Pujols: 29, 76, .316, 1.138

What it comes down to is I would take Howard on my team at first base over Pujols this year, and that's something that usually can't be said.