One Team's Trash, Another One's Treasure?

[missionhockey21]

One Team's Trash, Another One's Treasure?
by missionhockey21


April 7th 2006, the Reds and new General Manager Wayne Krivsky make a trade consisting of a player to be named later (pitcher Jeff Stevens) for former 1999 Expos 2nd Round Pick Brandon Phillips. Looking at this from a Reds perspective (which is quite easy obviously), it was a bit confusing. Given the Reds depth at secondbase of Ryan Freel, Rich Aurilia, and then Tony Womack, secondbase started to seem crowded. Scratch that, it was crowded. Reds Manager Jerry Narron went on the record stating he would find substantial playing time for all three Reds options at secondbase, so one might question when Phillips would get his time. Krivsky stated that it was a move to improve the depth of the defense, which despite his woes with the bat, Phillips was an improvement on the bench. The Reds didn’t give up anything of value but they did receive a player of potential, even though I don’t think anyone seriously anticipated that potential being reached.

From the Indians side of things, it was a bit questionable as well. But not in the sense of “Why do we need to do this?” but more like “Whhhhhy are we doing this again?”. Phillips had been an unquestionable failure in Cleveland. But after being the most hyped prospect included in the 2002 trading deadline blockbuster coming back for Bartolo Colon, it’s kind of rough to see him virtually given away for nothing. Of course pitcher Cliff Lee and outfielder Grady Sizemore was included in that trade as well, but Phillips was once ranked a top 20 prospect from Baseball America and the Indians top prospect. That isn’t to say he didn’t have his chance in Cleveland, he did. I am sure Tribe fans were sick of his performance after seeing a kid like Jhonny Peralta showed that the youngsters can hit just fine (he wasn't without his failures either). But that doesn’t mean I don’t think they expected, or at least hoped for more than a PTBNL. I must stress though that I don’t believe this was a heavily scrutinized move by anyone, myself included, because no one expected Brandon Phillips to start panning out. The Indians chose to keep Ramon Vazquez over Brandon Phillips for the role of utility infielder off the bench. Ramon Vazquez is what he is and always will be that, some defense and an inability to produce offensively (aka, a nothing). Brandon Phillips, even at his worst, is not too far off from Vazquez, so this just doesn’t make a lot of sense for the Tribe. Indians Manager Eric Wedge said that he didn’t believe Brandon Phillips was suited with limited action off the bench but Ramon Vazquez was. Because I don’t believe for a second that General Manager Mark Shapiro was giddy with this trade, but with Phillips lacking an option, what could he do? His hands were tied. Phillips' value was shot as he was too far removed from those once high praised days of being a top prospect, so Shapiro traded him for the little bit he could.

Often times we hear of certain players needing a change of scenery. Usually it’s related to some sort of attitude problem and in this case it’s no exception. Without going into too much detail, it’s been noted that Brandon Phillips exhibited attitude problems in Cleveland. Ones that could very well arise with struggling in Cincinnati. Those being when he became frustrated with the slump he was in when starting in Cleveland. He didn’t react very well to failure in other words. Whether it was due to immaturity or a personality problem, he couldn’t handle it. Bad moods and lack of effort were the results, probably an issue affecting Eric Wedges’ view on him. Once he started to struggle for a prolonged period of time and exhibiting this attitude, the Indians began to lose faith in him. And if Brandon Phillips lost faith in himself and the organization lost faith in Brandon Phillips, that’s not a winning recipe.

Who could blame the Indians for losing hope in Phillips though? They gave him his chance, and he never performed to the expectations that they and the baseball world held to him. His major league opportunities were lacking outside of the 2003 season, but for a once top prospect, he never got it done really in AAA once they received him. And once Belliard and Peralta were an effective duo, Phillips just started to get lost on the depth chart. Let’s take both his minor league and major league stats into consideration.

Year    Team Name    League    Age    Org.    Level    G    AB    R    H    2B    3B    HR    RBI    SB    CS    BB    SO    HBP    IBB    SH    SF    DP     AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS
2002    AAA Buffalo    IL    21    Cle    AAA    55    223    30    63    14    0    8    27    8    2    14    39    1    0    4    5    6                 .283  .321  .453  .774
2003    AAA Buffalo    IL    22    Cle    AAA    43    154    14    27    7    0    3    13    7    3    12    22    3    0    2    1    3                  .175  .247  .279  .526
2004    AAA Buffalo    IL    23    Cle    AAA    140    551    88    163    34    4    8    50    14    11    44    56    8    0    9    6    12            .296  .353  .416  .769
2005    AAA Buffalo    IL    24    Cle    AAA    112    465    79    119    24    1    15    46    7    5    39    90    10    0    2    2    11            .256  .326  .409  .735

Year    Team Name    League    Age    Org.    Level    G    AB    R    H    2B    3B    HR    RBI    SB    CS    BB    SO    HBP    IBB    SH    SF    DP     AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS
2002    Cleveland Indians  MLB    21    Cle    MLB    11    31    5    8    3    1    0    4    0    0    3    6    1    0    1    0    0                   .258  .343  .419  .762
2003    Cleveland Indians  MLB    22    Cle    MLB    112    370    36    77    18    1    6    33    4    5    14    77    3    0    5    1    12          .208  .242  .311  .553
2004    Cleveland Indians  MLB    23    Cle    MLB    6    22    1    4    2    0    0    1    0    2    2    5    0    0    0    0    1                    .182  .250  .273  .523
2005    Cleveland Indians  MLB    24    Cle    MLB    6    9    1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    4    0    0    0    0    0                     .000  .000  .000  000

His minor league numbers are lacking to say the least given the time spent in Buffalo. His 2004 season, while not showing the power his 2005 season did was pretty strong though. He got his average back up, had 46 extra base-hits which is respectable and posted a very solid 56 BB’s to 44 SO’s. His overall numbers weren’t dominating, but he appeared to be on the right path. One could argue that he deserved a chance at a job in 2005, but as we know, Jhonny Peralta was ahead on the depth charts and even if he has struggled this year, his 2005 season was spectacular. So then in an effort to impress the organization and move back up the depth charts, it’s obvious Phillips changed his swing to go for the power, which he did, but his OBP and his SLG went down as a result. As for his major league numbers, do they really need to have a lengthy description? Bad. Ok, there you go. Outside of his 2003 season, which he failed miserably, you can see what the Indians thought of him as he only saw 31 AB’s after that. Maybe they realized they rushed him or maybe they just lost faith and saw that Belliard and Peralta would be their ticket to a winning story up the middle. Whatever it was, Phillips never really got his second chance to re-prove himself, to live up to that high praise he once saw. Nope, he just got cozy in Buffalo.

Are the Indians to blame for this? Well, I hate to give this answer, but it’s a yes and no type of answer. I think Shapiro’s hands were tied if Wedge didn’t want him and Phillips being out of options. But could he (and the Indians) had done more? I believe so. Take the Reds as an example. They traded for Felipe Lopez who had a job handed to him on a silver platter to be the apprentice to Barry Larkin (Phillips actually drew more comparisons to Larkin than Lopez did in their prospect days) and he simply stunk. Phillips was in a similar position in 2003 with the Indians. The top prospect of the organization and the biggest piece of gold received in the Colon trade, let the fans see why that trade was worthwhile. Both performed miserably and slowly fell from their high places on the depth chart (Lopez in large part due to injury.) Lopez did comeback however and had competition for the shortstop position with veteran Rich Aurilia. Aurilia won the job despite being outperformed, but it didn’t take long for the rightful owner to get it back and a place in the 2005 All-Star Game. Shapiro took a similar approach with Jhonny Peralta who struggled as well, by bringing in Alex Cora as competition, who lost that battle while Peralta went on to set Indians franchise records for homeruns and RBI’s for a shortstop. Phillips never got that second serious chance to compete. Peralta became a more promising prospect and then a terrific young major league player in 2005, and Ronnie Belliard was a solid veteran who had his option on his contract taken in 2006. Did the Indians give up on Phillips too fast? I think so. Hindsight is 20/20 though, but even last year I think most would give the edge by a large margin for a backup position to Phillips over the scrub Vazquez anyday, for potential if anything. Or at the very least, the Indians waited way too long to trade him to maximize return value to be more than a PTBNL.

It’s no secret that once Phillips made his way from the AL Central to the NL Central, from northern to southern Ohio, he has had success. In just a couple weeks from the trade, he won the NL Player of the Week award. Many figured that this was due to the fact that NL teams had yet to figure out how to exploit his weaknesses. But with nearly 250 AB’s and substantial film on him from his 2003 season in Cleveland, it’s obvious that this is a different Brandon Phillips and not one who just has yet had his secrets told. Phillips was clear after the trade was announced that he was optimistic. He knew the situation with the logjam at second, but feeling like he was wanted and knowing that he could get a chance to prove himself with a clean slate was good enough for him. He had competition to drive him and he knew that his past wouldn't be held against him. And much like the Reds have been a surprise team with their +.500 record, Phillips has gone from bust to a potential All-Star candidate (although unlikely given the NL’s strength there.)

SEASON     TEAM     G     AB     R     H     2B     3B     HR     RBI     BB     SO     SB     CS     AVG     OBP     SLG     OPS
2006     Cin     69     239     36     74     12     1     7     44     17     32     14     0     .310     .356     .456     .812

Solid stats without question. The Great American Ballpark effect is there, but not in the way you would expect(Home: .339/.839 Away: .281/.784.) His SLG% is actually higher away than at home (.471 Away, .441 Home). Hitting coach Chris Chambliss I think has had his effect as well as he currently has 8 walks for the month of June versus the 4 he saw in April and the 5 in May. I am not one to get caught up in strikeouts, but for the Reds who are well known to be a swinging team, but Phillips is a good mix to this equation with the type of batter he profiles as. He’s posted an impressive 14 steals to 0 caught stealing (compare that to his 40-28 ratio posted at all levels with Cleveland). He’s on pace for about the same number of homers he saw last year with the Tribe’s AAA affiliate, only this time there is no nasty strikeout to walk ratio attached and it’s against MLB pitching.

Even though his hitting has won him the secondbase job, there is a lot to like about Phillips for Reds fans. His athleticism has been a welcomed addition of range to the infield. Him, Freel and Lopez are bringing effective speed back to Cincy. But what I like most about Phillips is the personality he is bringing to the clubhouse. I haven’t seen the cocky demeanor or the attitude problems once mentioned, just a sense of excitement and a desire to just play. Upon coming over he said that he would play wherever the Reds needed him, he just wanted a chance, he’s gotten that chance and maximized it. Is there a chance he returns to Earth? Well, he already did that with a struggling May, but as each game passes he is proving he is a solid player. Will he ever live up to his potential? The book is still out on that one (I personally would like to see more AB’s before I say so either way), but how can you not root for a story like this? It might not last forever, but Phillips is the current posterboy for the low risk, possible high reward move. And if it keeps up, the Reds could have a 2B-SS duo that would be among the best over the longterm for the National League.

[redsrbetter]

My initial thoughts on the deal were not kind:

Again, I thought DanO was gone. There was no move following the Ross pick up, so I am inclined to think there may not be one here as well. If there isn't a trade behind this, then this was a dumb move.

But boy am I glad that Krivsky knows more about baseball players and their potential to be a winner than I do. He really didnt care about the logjam already present at 2B. He knew he had to strike and he did. Doing this has made Krivsky an amazing GM. It is the type of moves that really pay off without much cost if they don't.

Very nice article mission. It explains that the Indians and Shapiro did not have much of a choice. But that if they knew he just needed that second chance, they would have held on to him.

I am very greatful that Phillips is on the Reds roster though. Sometimes I think that it is the fact that he is on a team that has such a prolific offense where the opposing pitcher has not concentrated on figuring him out yet. they are so concerned with how to get the rest of this lineup out that they may not be concerned about Phillips.

Another great one for this writing team! Keep it up fellas!

[CincyRedsFan30]

Nice work, mission.

[missionhockey21]

My initial thoughts on the deal were not kind:



But boy am I glad that Krivsky knows more about baseball players and their potential to be a winner than I do. He really didnt care about the logjam already present at 2B. He knew he had to strike and he did. Doing this has made Krivsky an amazing GM. It is the type of moves that really pay off without much cost if they don't.

Very nice article mission. It explains that the Indians and Shapiro did not have much of a choice. But that if they knew he just needed that second chance, they would have held on to him.

I am very greatful that Phillips is on the Reds roster though. Sometimes I think that it is the fact that he is on a team that has such a prolific offense where the opposing pitcher has not concentrated on figuring him out yet. they are so concerned with how to get the rest of this lineup out that they may not be concerned about Phillips.

Another great one for this writing team! Keep it up fellas!

Looking back on my initial thoughts, it's creepy how close I was to some of it. Obviously I didn't predict thisto happen with a gurantee that it would, nor am I right often (far from it), but to be this close for once it's pretty cool.

A move that is low risk (seemingly) but potentially high reward? I love it. And yeah, Phillips moves to number one on our 2B depth charts for minor leaguers. He's not without his problems but if player going back isn't anything much special, this could be a steal for us. Great move.
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I am in no way guranteeing anything for Phillips because it is a long shot and I don't think he'll reach that once predicted ceiling, but I am hopeful he'll turn out to be something nifty. The key I think is making Phillips realize he's wanted and that he has a chance to play everyday. Like the article Slyder posted, the kid has problems and I don't think it will help if he knows no matter how good he plays, Narron will be going with a 2-3-4-whatever man team at 2B.

Just for the small offchance that he can develop late and after MLB failure (FeLo anyone?), I like this move assuming the prospect isn't anyone great. I know a few posts sound really hyped up but I just love these kinds of moves that could potentially payoff bigtime.
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Honestly, they profile to be really different players in terms of offensive production (assuming they both reach close to potential). One of the reasons I like this trade is because I think any problems that Phillips is suffering with his swing could be corrected with Chambliss who seems to have a really great working condition with the young hitters.

The most impressive thing about Phillips, an issue I really didn't tackle when writing the article, is that he is willing to change as needed. His swing has continued to be refined and his plate discipline continues to improve. It should be interesting to see if he continues to progress or if as his name starts to build respect again as it has, if the NL pitchers will figure him out.

Thanks for your comments, I appreciate them.

[General]

One can argue that Renteria was Red Sox trash...and he's the Braves' best and most consistent player.

[Dam8610]

Jose Contreras, Juan Uribe, Jim Thome, Matt Thornton, Bobby Jenks, Pablo Ozuna, and A.J. Pierzynski have worked out pretty well for the White Sox. They were all considered another team's trash at the time the White Sox acquired them.

[jasonshortstop2]

Yea he has turned out to be very good for the reds
GOOD PICKUP!