Overrated? Absolute bullshit! Go look at those teams and the "talent" he had to work with. No manager can win without good talent which Torre had none. Those Mets teams that you talk of was when the farm system produced great players like Strawberry, Gooden, Mitchell, Dykstra. They weren't there for Torre. What about those Braves teams that overachieved for Torre? How about those terrible Cardinal teams he had to put up with. After he left, the owners extended their payroll and went out and got guys like Eckersley, Stottlemyre and Ron Gant. It's just a mystery what happens when teams have real talent. Players love this guy and he is a smart man but no one can win without talent and Joe had none of it before coming to the Yankees with great farm guys like Jeter, Rivera, Posada and Pettitte.