Joe Torre does not know how to handle his pitching staff

[browntown653]

I'm sorry Joe, but this is just getting ridiculous...and I'm not trying to second-guess in hindsight last night because I saw all this unraveling before my eyes. Consider:

- Vizcaino blew the game against Cleveland last time he pitched
- Proctor had a strong 7th inning and didn't throw too many pitches.
- Bruney has been our best reliever so far.
So why couldn't a) Proctor stay in the game or b) Bruney come in the game rather than Vizcaino? Bruney has been lights out, why is Torre so attached to Vizcaino? And then it just got worse...
- Vizcaino walked Manny, got Drew out, gave up a hit to Lowell. Not good but he had a chance to get out of it with the game still 6-3.
- Torre has consistently vowed this year that Rivera will be a one-inning pitcher.
Yet out comes Vizcaino and comes Mo. Now obviously it's rare that Mariano does blow the game like this, but it's the Red Sox who seem to have him figured out and you know his location is still not there as evidenced by the Oakland game. So why bring him in to get 5 outs?

Torre also needs to let his starters go deeper into games. The bullpen has pitched far more innings than any other team in baseball this year and they are all going to be dead by August as usual. Joe is a nice guy but needs to prove to me he can handle a pitching staff, and how is he going to change now? The only reason people are not realizing this is because A-Rod is off to the best start in baseball history, but if it weren't for him we'd probably be in last place right now.

Thoughts?

[nyjunc]

It was obvious coming into this weekend our best chance to get a game was Fri Night so w/ the lead you knew he'd use Mariano in the 8th if the situation presented itself. Boston beat our best, we can't second guess that.

[browntown653]

And once again Torre makes a horrible decision that costs the Yanks! You could pitch anybody in the bullpen but Proctor because Proctor has gone 2 days in a row...but as I sit in front of my TV hoping he doesn't make a stupid move, Proctor comes in to pitch the 7th! Incredible! Once again Torre drops the ball by having a guy go for his 3rd day in a row when you have 3 guys who have been pitching well lately in Henn, Bruney, and Farnsworth that only pitched yesterday...but he brings in Proctor! I was screaming at the TV before anything happened, and lo and behold, Proctor gives up 3 straight hits to lose the game. Then of course Henn shuts them down in the 8th. Unbelievable.

[browntown653]

No huge gripes about tonight...nobody really got it done out of the pen. But Vizcaino shouldn't be pitching 4 out of 5 days especially as ineffective as he's been lately. Farnsworth needs to get back in there and regain some confidence, he had 2 good outings in a row.

Rivera looked good tonight as the only positive.

[Slyder]

We'll trade you Joe Torre for Jerry Narron .

[Dry1313]

Ok here's the issue. Starters throw too many pitches, get caught up in the goddamn 5th. What choice does he have? I'm confident we'll get to the playoffs, but with Proctor tying a ML record for most appearances in his teams first 17 games, we really have no hope for the playoffs.

[nyjunc]

Torre didn't cost us ANY of the games, if we don't execute we don' win and our pitchers didnt' execute. We are beaten up in the starting staff right now, the pen is being used too much b/c of it- it's not Joe's fault we are losing games.

[browntown653]

Torre didn't cost us ANY of the games, if we don't execute we don' win and our pitchers didnt' execute. We are beaten up in the starting staff right now, the pen is being used too much b/c of it- it's not Joe's fault we are losing games.

I don't want to say he cost us Friday, but we easily could and should have won that game if he had handled the bullpen better. There was also no reason to bring in Kevin Thompson for Giambi, it's a Yankee-Red Sox game and what are the odds a decent speed upgrade like that wins the game as opposed to Giambi's spot coming up again...and lo and behold, Thompson struck out to end it.

[love_that_reefer]

This thread should have been "Brian Cashman and Papa George do not know how to build a pitching staff". This is in no way Joe Torre's fault. I see your suggestions but the fact is there are no great options. Proctor, Vizcaino, Bean, Chase Wright and whoevere else they can find are not good pitching options. Cashman and George blew this, not Torre.

[browntown653]

I know he isn't given too much, but the point I'm trying to make is he's not very good with handling pitchers. He takes pitchers out too early, leaves them in too long, or brings in the wrong guy in the wrong situation. He's lost all faith in Farnsworth, who pitched well in his last few outings and is a guy who should definitely get some work, and keeps pitching Vizcaino who has been awful lately in big spots. No reason to use Proctor in 12 of 17 games either.

[love_that_reefer]

Vizcaino is just as reliable as Farnsworth which is the Yankees problem. As for Proctor pitching, maybe if a starter got out of the fifth inning it wouldn't be as bad. Yanks are in trouble but Wang is back so that might help a tad.

[browntown653]

I know the starters aren't going long, and Proctor is not a bad reliever, but Torre's just going to kill him at this rate. There are other guys to pitch and none of them have 12 appearances. I don't want his arm to fall off by August. Thank god for Wang's return though.

[nyjunc]

I don't want to say he cost us Friday, but we easily could and should have won that game if he had handled the bullpen better. There was also no reason to bring in Kevin Thompson for Giambi, it's a Yankee-Red Sox game and what are the odds a decent speed upgrade like that wins the game as opposed to Giambi's spot coming up again...and lo and behold, Thompson struck out to end it.

We had the best closer in the history of the game on the mound, what more can we expect? and he wanted more runs when he pinch ran Thompson, it didn't look like Giambi would get up again at that point.

[browntown653]

We had the best closer in the history of the game on the mound, what more can we expect?

So going by what you're saying, there would be no reason to pinch-run Thompson.

[nyjunc]

So going by what you're saying, there would be no reason to pinch-run Thompson.

Giambi wasn't expected to get up again and even w/ Mo you still want to score as many as possible. We didn't lose b/c he pinch ran for Giambi, we lost b/c they beat our best pitcher.