Trade: SEA/STL

[Sabu88]

this trade flies in the face of 5

The word CAN is a qualifier. Simply meaning they do have the ability to do this, not saying they will every trade.

[HollywoodLeo]

That's a cop-out. Of course they can do it, but that's not the question. The question is are they doing it?

Molina can conceivably sim and re-sim over and over until he gets the results he wants for Texas but we're obviously not going to berate him for doing so on the grounds that he can.

Anyway, I agree there's a bit of inconsistency here and I'm in full agreement that so long as there isn't obvious collusion or a rookie GM being taken advantage of people should be allowed to do what they want with trades.

I also agree that this task can be handled effectively by the league commish by himself. And if that does add more work (Which I don't see why it would, but I've also never ran a league before) then perhaps the task can be delegated to one individual?

However, I think the inconsistency is more attributed to human nature/lack of any formal strictly enforced guidelines (not that I'm calling for some in a fantasy game) than any conscious effort of TC collusion or conspiracy.

As for my opinion regarding what should be allowed and how the TC (or lack thereof) should be formed....I'll state it (and have) but I'll also go with the flow if the Commish/TC disagree because Molina is the one that does the work.

[Kingdom]

I liked when Providence A's started handling trade decisions himself towards the end of TSSL (as Leo's padres shed a tear), I think he did a good job. Molina would do as good a job as well and I think the efficiency and consistency would improve greatly. If that's something he would even consider. If not, then we roll with his decision.

[Kingdom]

Or decisions.

I've stated my dis-satisfaction and opinions, and I know it's frowned upon by the masses- which I don't really care about, but I will fall in line with the guy that runs the league cause ultimately, unless you've ran an OOTP league, you have no idea about the tedious nature of the beast that a league can grow to be.

[Hangman]

Or decisions.

I've stated my dis-satisfaction and opinions, and I know it's frowned upon by the masses- which I don't really care about, but I will fall in line with the guy that runs the league cause ultimately, unless you've ran an OOTP league, you have no idea about the tedious nature of the beast that a league can grow to be.

Which is why I don't understand why the TC needs to do all their discussion behind closed doors. It sends the wrong message imo.

[HollywoodLeo]

If we have a TC I have no problem with them discussing trades behind proverbial closed doors.

If they held the discussions in open we'd possibly see a lot of pointless arguments over proposed trades before they're even approved or disapproved.

One TC member says why he doesn't like the trade and disapproves it while the rest say it's ok and approve it, but then an argument commences over the one disapproval and his reasoning.

[Hangman]

I wasn't referring to the actual trades themselves but this;

This trade has been widely discussed in the TC where it belongs.

[Sabu88]

That's a cop-out. Of course they can do it, but that's not the question. The question is are they doing it?

Anyway, I agree there's a bit of inconsistency here and I'm in full agreement that so long as there isn't obvious collusion or a rookie GM being taken advantage of people should be allowed to do what they want with trades.

You're wonderful at answering your own questions. A few bullet points for support.

- At least two trades involving a TC member that spawned from a vetoed trade
- The lack of consistency in this trade with STL/SEA
- As for a conscious effort of collusion or "conspiracy", a lot of writing is on the wall here. The proposed idea of "Plan A" by a TC member which involved a statutory rape of my transactions in a vindictive way just because I was "smart" about it. The obvious "Quantity over quality" argument that has been spewed ad naseum. etc. etc.

The lack of response or clarification of anything by a TC member is a big red flag that they're scrambling to pull something out of their ass. They even have a detractor amongst their ranks.

I trust Molina's opinion because history has given me nothing but belief that he can be an unbiased leader.

I count at least two people in the TC who have issues with me, and one member that is in my division. I shouldn't have to bank on having support especially if the people who have issues with me are in the ears of the decision makers.

[Molina00]

Here was my take on the trade.

I see Desalvo and Starrett being somewhat similar. Both have good talent and are solid hitters, Starrett's is better but he's also older and more expensive. Barton is underrated, could be a solid everday player if given the chance while Marinez is old and dying talent wise. That leaves the picks and Diez. Diez is 6-10-8 talent with endurance of 10. That's about what you could expect out of a last pick, and the picks are not sure things in terms of development. Some get better, some stay the same, quite a few of them lose talent.

I do not approve trades based on the GM name. I and other TC members have vetoed trades involving TC members before. I evaluate every trade based on the players/salaries/pick positions involved, no matter how much I hate evaluating these things. Just because a trade gets through once in a while that doesn't seem to conform with the TC's usual passing/vetoing doesn't mean the TC is broken. It just means we are human and may not get it right 100% of the time. The goal is obviously to judge trades fairly and consistantly, and I think we do a good judge of that for the most part, but with most things there is always room for improvement.

I may comment more later, I don't know, but I gotta wrap things up at work and head home.

[Molina00]

The lack of response or clarification of anything by a TC member is a big red flag that they're scrambling to pull something out of their ass. They even have a detractor amongst their ranks.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe TC members are busy? Such as a busy day at work and just now managed to find time to read this before heading home? Don't make accusations without having any facts.

[Sabu88]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe TC members are busy? Such as a busy day at work and just now managed to find time to read this before heading home? Don't make accusations without having any facts.

I look forward to the "Hugh Willis is quantity" statement.

I expect all arguments/concerns to be addressed.

[Porter]

sorry i have more important things to do, like finding a new place to move into, which i finally found a place.

as for this trade. marinez's took contact, power and avoid k hits days after resigning. hes good vs lefties, find the # of lefties in this league. starrett is soon to be 34 years old and hes been taking talent hits as well. sure the picks would be nice but my team is built to win now,not later. the three guys i will get are easier to resign with the massive amounts of money hill and george want. I get three younger players to replace my other pending fa in jason, mitnuski and savory. ive lost 25, 12 and 14 the last 3 seasons. this is the last time i will explain this. now back to the more important things of life.

[Hangman]

The one suggestion I have would be to post the votes along with the trade outcome. Not who voted which way but rather "trade vetoed 4-1" with the explanation. Sometimes when trades get passed/vetoed, us non TC GM's have no idea how close the outcome and thus no idea of the TC's values. (I assumed the Sea/Stl trade would be close just as the Pitt/Ari. I'm just curious how close they really were)

[Sabu88]

as for this trade. marinez's took contact, power and avoid k hits days after resigning. hes good vs lefties, find the # of lefties in this league. starrett is soon to be 34 years old and hes been taking talent hits as well. sure the picks would be nice but my team is built to win now,not later. the three guys i will get are easier to resign with the massive amounts of money hill and george want. I get three younger players to replace my other pending fa in jason, mitnuski and savory. ive lost 25, 12 and 14 the last 3 seasons. this is the last time i will explain this. now back to the more important things of life.

Hey cool, I have reasons I make trades too. They sound good to me when I make them also.

Only this one is not.

I'm just saving you from yourself, bro.

[Molina00]

And you apparently didn't read my post. Mainly the part about not seeing this thread until shortly before time to head home, thus only having time to post my view on the trade and not enough to address a laundry list of issues. I can't comment on your situation, but I personally have things to do, real life stuff, and don't have enough spare time to spend it all addressing laundry lists on top of the time I already spend running the league. If I think changes need to be made I'll make them, and I don't need drama like this making me want to quit more than I already do.

This is just a game. It's not life or death, so lets get back to simming some ballgames.