Trade: SEA/STL

[Sabu88]

Molina has enough on his plate as commish. Having to not only do everything involved with running the league plus his own life that just asking for him to burn out like it has numerous other commissioners.

cop out response. Molina still has to vote on the players...how would that be any more work than it ALWAYS has been? He'd be doing the same job. If it was just him, would he suddenly have to run a 5k race before he voices his opinion on the trade ? Bake a cake? Think before you post, please.

Ive had plenty of trades veto'd over the times playing the leagues. My philosophy was oh well lets try again. And if we couldn't make it work moved on to the next target. Its not that hard.

Thats cool and everything, but not the issue. The issue is the inconsistency. There is an established and clear favoritism in what trades go through.

Why do you have such a problem with rookie GMs coming in and NOT a problem with trade council members unfairly dictating trades that go through and do not?

Opening up trades to 0 oversight isn't a way to make it more enjoyable. It makes it more enjoyable for a select few (note not naming anyone) that attempts to take advantage of others or as I mention above Try to be Jim Bowden and "win" every trade at the expensive of the league.

Well there seems to be an established agenda and majority of groupthink in the trade council as it is. Thats the equivalent of one person.

Molina would be the "oversight". Why would you not trust his judgment?

[Hangman]

So let's open the TC to everyone and rotate seats on a yearly basis then if Molina can't handle 2 trades a week.

[OrioleMagic]

You guys don't know what your asking for... As I commish, i don't/didn't want the burden of deciding trades. They are not always easy decisions and more than one perspective is really a positive. We need a TC because of the Sabu's and CJ's of the OOTP world. It's just a part of OOTP life.

This trade has been widely discussed in the TC where it belongs.

[Sabu88]

You guys don't know what you're** asking for... As I commish, i don't/didn't want the burden of deciding trades. They are not always easy decisions and more than one perspective is really a positive. We need a TC because of the Sabu's and CJ's of the OOTP world. It's just a part of OOTP life.

This trade has been widely discussed in the TC where it belongs.

What do you mean by this statement?

What does the need for a TC have to do with unfairly judging trades?

Yeah...thats what I thought.

I think what we're asking for is pretty clear, an end to the corruption, YOUR corruption.

[Hangman]

So let's open the TC to everyone and rotate seats on a yearly basis

Again. The TC must go discuss in private about a league matter to ensure their power remains intact.

[HollywoodLeo]

It basically seems to me that Stl gave up two 1st round picks in exchange for a huge salary dump.

[Hangman]

It basically seems to me that Stl gave up two 1st round picks in exchange for a huge salary dump.

I'm not saying the trade isn't fair, I just don't like the current set-up of the TC.

[HollywoodLeo]

Hangman if you want to put my theory to the test feel free to start your own and run it as you seem fit. I would be more than happy to join it. Until then I stand by General, Mission, Molina, Nick, OM, CrazyEights, and Prov (Im sure I might be forgetting one or two but thats all I remember) all of whom have run leagues on this site and all have had a TC in place in some form or another. Heck I've even been part of those very same TC's.

IIRC Crazy didn't have a TC and handled trades the way Hangman and Sabu are suggesting (on his own).

[Sabu88]

It basically seems to me that Stl gave up two 1st round picks in exchange for a huge salary dump.

St. Louis is giving up the best players, getting nothing in return, and not really giving up too much salary. Revenues for the Cardinals 104-107 million per season...one of the highest in the league. He would be running at a loss of about 20 million if he would have kept those players.

After the season, St. Louis would have been relieved of those contracts anyways in addition to the 15 million he gave David George. He resigned the one dude for 6 million in a careless move. He could have gotten prospects in return for the high salary players, which hold some pretty solid value (especially the lead off hitter).

He's trying to balance out his spending in this, but what he sacrifices in the process is abysmal. Especially considering a five year outlook on his team. He's just getting older and has zero minor leaguers to fall back on. Why would he further deplete this part of his team??

The twenty million in the end means little as St. Louis certainly isnt in any sort of financial straits. A year with a lowered payroll would boost any losses a 5-6 year run would give him.

Even if he intended to dump these players...again...the value he is giving up in ADDITION to the TWO 1st round picks goes against any sort of consistency the trading council has shown in the past. How some trades can be evaluated to their very structure and others cant...mind boggling.

If we're all so noble and wanting to "protect new GMs from Sabu", by proxy, this should extend to stupid "veteran" GMs making dumb moves that hurt their team. Or is the sole purpose of the trade council to police me? This unfounded notion that I hunt down new teams and try to swindle them in deals.

The fact of the matter is, most teams that trade with me benefit in the long run. I have had no problem answering GM questions and telling them what I think they should do. Most of the men I have done deals with agree that I'm the easiest to work with, not trying to screw people out of their shit, and looking for something that benefits the both of us.

My options to deal with half the league aren't really there because all of the "veteran guys" are afraid to deal with me.

The problem that Seattle seems to have with all of this is...who is there to police you?

I can count two occasions where a trade was vetoed and then a member of the trade council works a deal with one of the trading partners for the same players and value.

I really thought this would come to light with an even more blatant attempt by a TC member to rip someone off, but I guess we can settle on a trade by a TC member that is just so mouth-breathingly retarded.

So..I'm wondering....again...how can members of the TC justify this trade?

[HollywoodLeo]

I'm not saying I like the move for Stl because I agree that "fair" or not "fair" they gave up way too much, especially considering them being expiring contracts. But you also can't say he gets nothing in return. He gets salary relief in return.

[HollywoodLeo]

My only question, however, is this: You seem to believe there's a vendetta involved where the TC empowers their own at the expense of others.

Yet you clearly agree that St Louis gets the short end of the stick here.....Stl, the team with the TC member in charge.

[Hangman]

, especially considering them being expiring contracts.

Marinez signed an extension worth 18 million over 3 years before he lost talent.

[Sabu88]

My only question, however, is this: You seem to believe there's a vendetta involved where the TC empowers their own at the expense of others.

Yet you clearly agree that St Louis gets the short end of the stick here.....Stl, the team with the TC member in charge.

Exactly. They can't police themselves. They see a name, and agree to approve it. How is that hard to understand?

Regardless if a trade was fair or not, the influence allowed it to go through. It highlights the inconsistency and favoritism.

I really thought this would come to light with an even more blatant attempt by a TC member to rip someone off, but I guess we can settle on a trade by a TC member that is just so mouth-breathingly retarded.

The fact that this trade was so unbalanced and so inconsistent with vetoes in the past PROVES that TC members will bend the rules for their own...even if it means it hurts them in the long run.

[Sabu88]

Facts gathered from this?:

1) Trade council members favor trades they are involved in
2) Trade council members will veto your trade if they want the player you're trading for
3) "Don't fix what is broken" makes no sense at all
4) Development of players only is a factor when it isnt a detriment to a TC member
5) Trade council members can get younger, better, and richer in their trades
6) Players at certain positions are rare and in high demand only when the trade council deems
7) Age doesnt seem to be a factor at all in TC trades
8) The desire of a team to unload players for DIRT cheap to members of the TC will be welcomed with open arms, especially if they post a thread about it in Cyan.

lol

[HollywoodLeo]

this trade flies in the face of 5