OOTP Etiquette

[OrioleMagic]

With the resurgence of activity recently, I thought it might be worth our time to revisit some OOTP etiquette issues. I'll just pose questions at this point.

1. Is it ever proper OOTP etiquette to ignore a fellow GM's PM?

2. Is it proper OOTP etiquette to be insulted with initial negotiations? Is a little patience, and maybe at least one return PM re-indicating the desired return value appropriate?

3. Should trade negotiations remain between the two affected GMs? or is it okay to take one GM's aggressive trade offer and tell another GM to beat it?

4. Anything else?

I think a couple of these issues have contributed to the lack of activity at times. Hopefully this will remain a healthy discussion.

[Hammer]

number 3 is lame as shit. i dont mind if somebody goes to another gm "i have a very good offer from somebody else, so you gotta come strong or let me go make that trade", or something like that. but outright telling the specifics is grounds for a kick to the dick... if we knew each other in real life, that is.

[OrioleMagic]

I worded that poorly. I was definitely referring to disclosing the exact players to another GM...

[ucfinfan86]

The most important thing to me with leagues like this is your #1 question. Just respond back to a PM, whether you have absolutely no interest or are insulted with the inquiry. A quick no thanks or not interested would suffice.

I respond to every inquiry PM I receive. I feel the responses here are hit or miss, but I’ve learned who will respond and won’t and really have stopped trying with the ones who don’t. I think there’s a good group of 15 or so here that I don’t usually worry if they will respond or not.

[HollywoodLeo]

I agree with a lot of this but I’m very big on number 2.

People tend to start big in negotiations hoping the eventual middle ground will settle well.

If I come at you with something you feel is too much don’t get insulted like I’ll accept nothing less. Either counter offer or just move on.

[HollywoodLeo]

The most important thing to me with leagues like this is your #1 question. Just respond back to a PM, whether you have absolutely no interest or are insulted with the inquiry. A quick no thanks or not interested would suffice.

I respond to every inquiry PM I receive. I feel the responses here are hit or miss, but I’ve learned who will respond and won’t and really have stopped trying with the ones who don’t. I think there’s a good group of 15 or so here that I don’t usually worry if they will respond or not.

I don’t like it when people don’t respond either (and sometimes I’m guilty of that myself)

But...you’ll definitely never get a response if you never try for one.

There’s some I may wait less time on but if I have an idea for a trade I always at least send something

[Kingdom]

I don’t like it when people don’t respond either (and sometimes I’m guilty of that myself)

But...you’ll definitely never get a response if you never try for one.

There’s some I may wait less time on but if I have an idea for a trade I always at least send something

yet, we try and try and it's always the same thing, no response so I do agree with UCF, we know there are folks that never or rarely ever respond because they don't pay much attention to the league, or just enough to not get booted, or are miserable fucks

Pretend I said the last part in Hammer's voice, so a nice New York accent and such

[Kingdom]

1. Is it ever proper OOTP etiquette to ignore a fellow GM's PM?

2. Is it proper OOTP etiquette to be insulted with initial negotiations? Is a little patience, and maybe at least one return PM re-indicating the desired return value appropriate?

3. Should trade negotiations remain between the two affected GMs? or is it okay to take one GM's aggressive trade offer and tell another GM to beat it?

4. Anything else?

So I'm gonna just be upfront and say that OM and I have had passing conversations since I returned to the league about this general theme. OM and I have certainly been a part of OOTP leagues long enough (but we are not the only ones) that we have always had our disagreements about things but we also often agree about the same things. And it's the same things time and time again.

It has always been an issue with folks returning PMs. Whether it's because they aren't very active, don't pay much attention, are genuinely lazy, and I do believe favoritism/collusion/outright cheating occurs as well (I mean, I can speak to that in other leagues happening, I'm sure OM can as well, people have no qualms about cheating to win a fake fantasy league with no prize for winning except I guess boosting their non-existent self-esteem). This happens everywhere. I honestly can't remember a time being in any kind of sim league in which the issue of people being courteous enough to respond to messages did not exist. Now specifically for MSL, as UCF alluded too, there are people that it's truly at the point to why bother? The end result is always the same.


And I think most of us can say that we do not care if the response is an indepth discussion on a trade offer or inquiry, a simple no thanks or I'm not interested or I'm not looking to trade so and so, or whatever, would be outstanding. I would not even care if someone replied back saying my offer was terrible (I can at least hope for reasoning why but hey, I'll take that nonetheless).



As for how each person negotiates, it's probably different in various ways. I'm not making any offers if you give me no indication of who you like on my team unless I immediately had an idea right away. If I trade with Hammer or Leo or Porter for example, I'm perfectly comfortable enough engaging in trade talks in any manner because they 1. respond 2. will be honest if I'm close or not close and 3. they're reasonable. I've made trades with these guys in threads going off topic even (and they have done so with each other too). Others require more, a lot more. But it's better than silence. I'll take complicated or frustrating over silence.



I'm sure the third item happens. I guess I can't say much about that, other than I think it's a fair thing to tell one GM that you prefer a different deal over this deal. That's normal, I think. Now whether that GM says that GM A is offering me Peter, Paul, and Mary for a pretzel- GM B can you top that?....I feel like if this is a practice that happens in real life, OK, fine. I don't know.

If you are more inclined to roll with the aggressive GM's offer vs. slow poke, that seems like a human thing to do. You may never get an answer from slow poke and if you wait, you might lose out on aggressive GM's offer.

[BuckFoston]

So, I am obviously a lot less experienced and knowledgeable than most of you but here's my two cents on topic number 1.

Yes, always respond to a PM, always. With that, I think it's important to remember that we are all adults with jobs, wives/girlfriends/significant others, some of us coach, friends, family, etc, whatever the case may be, that take away our attention and sometimes makes it so we can't respond to a PM immediately. Just as a general rule for myself, I always try to respond to a PM as quick as I can and at the most, 24 hours because I know a lot of times, trades can be time sensitive. There are times that GM's are in negotiations with other GM's or it's holding the draft up or whatever, and need to hear your response ASAP. With that being said though, if you do take a little while to respond, just simply say something that helps us understand why it took so long to hear from you like "hey, sorry, have been at work all day" or something a long those lines.

I know this may seem petty and insignificant but it really goes a long way if I know you weren't just blowing me off. I don't know, maybe I'm the only one who feels this way but I always try my best to respond quickly and if I don't respond quickly, I almost always try to communicate why I wasn't able to.

[Bizkit]

If I usually don't respond it means I was busy at the time, and just keep sending until you get a response.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[HollywoodLeo]

yet, we try and try and it's always the same thing, no response so I do agree with UCF, we know there are folks that never or rarely ever respond because they don't pay much attention to the league, or just enough to not get booted, or are miserable fucks

Pretend I said the last part in Hammer's voice, so a nice New York accent and such

Well, I mean, there are some where I basically immediately don't expect a response.

But it's like the lottery. If you buy a ticket you have a 1 in like 2 billion shot of winning. But if you don't buy a ticket you literally have a 0 percent chance of winning.

The cost factor is two minutes of my time so it's not like I lose much. I just don't put all of my eggs in hoping that trade goes through and will typically immediately try and find a second trade partner as well.

[OrioleMagic]

If I usually don't respond it means I was busy at the time, and just keep sending until you get a response.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

LMAO. I couldn't pass this up. Typical millenial response! No concept of personal responsibility or contribution to an OOTP cause greater than yourself.

(I say this mostly tongue in cheek although there are definitely threads of truth in this.)

[ucfinfan86]

I probably under estimated my number of GMs I expect a response from. After going through the team list it’s actusllg about 19 or so. 70% or so isn’t bad. Pretty much everyone in NL outside 2 teams.

[Bizkit]

LMAO. I couldn't pass this up. Typical millenial response! No concept of personal responsibility or contribution to an OOTP cause greater than yourself.

(I say this mostly tongue in cheek although there are definitely threads of truth in this.)

Most millenials live in their parents basement and wouldn't know the word busy. I could just be at work. Unable to respond, and forget to respond back later.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Kingdom]

Well, I mean, there are some where I basically immediately don't expect a response.

But it's like the lottery. If you buy a ticket you have a 1 in like 2 billion shot of winning. But if you don't buy a ticket you literally have a 0 percent chance of winning.

The cost factor is two minutes of my time so it's not like I lose much. I just don't put all of my eggs in hoping that trade goes through and will typically immediately try and find a second trade partner as well.

that's 2 minutes that coulda been used for simming...11:57 CST instead of 11:59. priorities are lacking man