Which opposing pitcher in the AL Central do you dislike the most?

[DiamondGirl]

Jennifer: CC is what he is and it shows when teams (not just the Twins) get in his head.

As for my knowledge of contracts, I worked for a professional sports organization for 12 years and know quite a bit about contracts. The community service clause is a part of all contracts - not only franchise players but rookies as well.

Let's not make CC out to be a Boy Scout here. He's a contracted player within a major league organization and there are certain "contracted" duties he has to fulfill. It's not just CC - it is every player throughout professional sports so don't go there.

[Jennifer]

Jennifer: That is my definition of owning Sabathia and that's how I feel. If a player starts showing anger on the mound and cursing at the dugout, to me that's what you call owning him. Twins are in his head and his stupidity speaks for itself. Twins have beaten him in the last few years. 4-3? That's more than owning him in my book. Why if he was that great, he would do a lot better than that like say Mark Buherle or Roger Clemens. Heck freaking Aaron Sele has owned the Twins unlike Sabathia. 4-3 against the Twins is not what the Indians paid him to do.

If Gardenhire is not mad at Sabathia, why is it Gardenhire never mentions his name and why did Gardy took a shot at Sabathia last week for inciting the nonsense in the first game of the series.

It's one thing if a fan like me use profanity (I am not proud of using profanity BTW!), but it's different when a player use profanity. He needs to lead by an example. He is pitching for a ML team. He needs to be a role model for his teammates and the fans at teh game.

Terry Mullholland was actually very criticial of C.C when C.C. said those comments. Terry said that C.C. needs to grow up and not let the small stuff bother him. Terry also mentioned that C.C. does not listen to people. Terry Mullholland, my favorite Twin, would not go rip someone just to start things up. When TM speaks, people listen. From what I hear, TM and CC hated each other.

Twins pitchers headhunting? Now what the hell is that? I watch the games and I never saw any headhunting. I do know Jason Davis did headhunt us so the Twins responded in kind. When did I ever blame C.C. for starting up fights with the White Sox? White Sox start fights with their own by opening their mouth.

I will speak for DG. Most players are being told to do community work for their teams in sports. You see that all the time.

Why would Twins players go out and incite C.C? Huh? They got other things to do in the game than worry about bothering C.C.?

CC is 4-3 against the Twins and you think somehow that is a positive in favor of the Twins? Part of where you are going amiss is that you don't seem to understand that at this point in his career CC is considered by many as a number three starter -- a number 2 at best. The Tribe gave him the big contract over the winter because the expect him to become at least a very good number 2 if not a number 1. Putting him into the same category as Mark Buehrle and Roger Clemens is disingenious since both are established number 1 starters not the mention their winning percentages against the Twins as well as Sele's are way above their overall career winning percentages. CC's is a mere .571 but that translates into almost 93 wins in a 162 game season.

More generally, despite your rhetoric you are coming very close to agreeing with what I have been saying all along here and elsewhere, when you aren't busy ducking my direct questions or trying to answer them with your own questions. Yes, CC is immature but despite your rhetoric you have offered no facts that he is any less immature when it comes to other teams. If he is does that mean every other team "owns" him also? Moreover, your citing Mullholland's comments do nothing more than affirm what I have been saying all along.

As to perhaps what motivated the Twins-JD brawl see the below article.
Practical Joke

You assert that: "I will speak for DG. Most players are being told to do community work for their teams in sports. You see that all the time." That is absolutely correct but they cannot be forced to do it absent a contractual requirement. And anyway DG's assertion was that "he does what he HAS to do." (DG's emphasis). Where are the facts to support this.

Lastly, I ran across a posting of yours in another thread, as well as in another forum and your blog, that greatly amuses me in view of your comments offered in this thread:

Sports is where teams hate each other. That's the beauty aspect of following sports. You gotta have teams hate each other. It bothers the hell out of me that the Twins and Indians get to have freakin warnings. I love watching brawls between hated rivals. Heck I hope there are brawls this year between the White Sox and Twins.

[Jennifer]

Jennifer: CC is what he is and it shows when teams (not just the Twins) get in his head.

As for my knowledge of contracts, I worked for a professional sports organization for 12 years and know quite a bit about contracts. The community service clause is a part of all contracts - not only franchise players but rookies as well.

Let's not make CC out to be a Boy Scout here. He's a contracted player within a major league organization and there are certain "contracted" duties he has to fulfill. It's not just CC - it is every player throughout professional sports so don't go there.

I really don't want to fight with you over this but your first paragraph is completely at odds with your earlier assertion that "Most franchise guys have it in their contracts that they have to do so many community service events." (Emphasis added). Both assertions cannot be right. "Most" and "every" do not have the same meaning. Once some are not included in the whole you can't without specific knowledge assert definitively whether a player has such a provision in his contract or not.

Also note that giving money and time to chartiable organizations and community service is not identical to having to show-up to "community service events."

You continue to disparge CC's community work offering absolutely no evidence of what, if anything, is required of him or whether his efforts don't far exceed whatever is required. My guess is that it is because you are clueless.

[Porter]

I have to get started at work in a minute, but I will respond about how the Twins own C.C. To show you how the Twins own C.C., tell me why does C.C. tend to meltdown after the Twins score two runs or how about when C.C. whines about the mound at the Dome in one of his starts there this year or how about when C.C. start making facial expressions after he gets hit. That's my definition of C.C. owning the Twins.

Owning would be Pedro Martinez vs the M's until anyone does that, they arent owned.

13-0, 1.30 ERA, 0.80 WHIP, 2 CGs, 1 SHO, 130 Ks, 24 BB, opp BA .164

CAN ANYONE SAY THAT?

[Steak]

Porter: I meant to say the Twins own Sabathia. Thanks for that quote. I was so in rush to get back to work that I wrote a wrong sentence. Thanks for the correction and thanks for proving my point over Jennifer's point. Jennifer thinks the Twins do not own Sabathia while I think we do. You are the best.

[DiamondGirl]

Jennifer - you talk a good talk and that's all it is.

[Steak]

Jennifer - you talk a good talk and that's all it is.

[Steak]

Jennifer: If Brad Radke or Johan Santana was 4-3 against the Whiney Sux or the Indians, I wouldn't be happy. Heck Lynch and I get on Brad a lot for not winning big games forever. 4-3 against a team that C.C. hates is not a very good thing. That's call mediocority. It's good to see you think C.C. is a #3 starter. Unfortunately, the Indians expect him to pitch like an ace and that's winning big games. C.C. has that talent to be that good. When Mullholland rip C.C., TM did it as a concern and a friend of C.C's. TM tried to counsel C.C, but C.C. never listened to TM. In fact, TM said C.C. was unlistenable.

Yes, I do write a blog, but how do you know that I write a blog? I never recalled publicly promoting my blog at this board or at that other baseball board that we post.

If Jason Davis is that bitter not to take a joke because the Twins were trying to have fun with Casey Blaker, a former farmhand, that's on him and it just shows you about his personality. I think Davis needs to know how to throw strikes instead of venting at the Twins players.

Yes most players have it in their clause to do community work. I know the Nets make it a point to have their players do community work.

[Jennifer]

Jennifer - you talk a good talk and that's all it is.

I take this to mean that you are incapable of providing facts to support your assertions, as well as unable to provide any explanation as to the patent inconsistency between your two earlier posts regarding player contracts. Of course we both know the reason for the inconsistency, don't we?

[Jennifer]

Jennifer: If Brad Radke or Johan Santana was 4-3 against the Whiney Sux or the Indians, I wouldn't be happy. Heck Lynch and I get on Brad a lot for not winning big games forever. 4-3 against a team that C.C. hates is not a very good thing. That's call mediocority. It's good to see you think C.C. is a #3 starter. Unfortunately, the Indians expect him to pitch like an ace and that's winning big games. C.C. has that talent to be that good. When Mullholland rip C.C., TM did it as a concern and a friend of C.C's. TM tried to counsel C.C, but C.C. never listened to TM. In fact, TM said C.C. was unlistenable.

And your support for what Tribe management expects is? Westbrook going into the season was slotted first in the rotation and CC I believe was second but might have been third.

[DiamondGirl]

Jennifer, I didn't realize this is a detail-specific site - it was my impression when I signed on that this was a place to voice opinions about various subjects regarding baseball, favorite teams, least favorite teams, etc. Steak, correct me if I'm wrong!

You can take what I mean from my previous post that I'm tired of you and your derogatory remarks directed at Steak and at me and whoever else disagrees with your opinions.

I am not at liberty to discuss specific legal matters with reference to a contract and the details and clauses found within - however, what I did was to generalize my knowledge of what is found in contracts throughout most if not all the MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, AFL, etc. etc. I am very capable - more so than you will ever know - of providing facts but I choose to offer my opinion only as not to breach on-going relationships I share with Major League players from the team I was employed with in the past.

Now, shall we move on?

[Jennifer]

Jennifer, I didn't realize this is a detail-specific site - it was my impression when I signed on that this was a place to voice opinions about various subjects regarding baseball, favorite teams, least favorite teams, etc. Steak, correct me if I'm wrong!

You can take what I mean from my previous post that I'm tired of you and your derogatory remarks directed at Steak and at me and whoever else disagrees with your opinions.

I am not at liberty to discuss specific legal matters with reference to a contract and the details and clauses found within - however, what I did was to generalize my knowledge of what is found in contracts throughout most if not all the MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, AFL, etc. etc. I am very capable - more so than you will ever know - of providing facts but I choose to offer my opinion only as not to breach on-going relationships I share with Major League players from the team I was employed with in the past.

Now, shall we move on?

You said in one post:

"Most franchise guys have it in their contracts that they have to do so many community service events."

You then said in your next post:

"The community service clause is a part of all contracts - not only franchise players but rookies as well."

Now we get a diatribe first regarding "opinions" and then your great expertise on professional contracts. Are the two assertions of yours I quoted your opinion or fact? And how can only "most franchise guys" have a community service clause in their contract while at the same time there is a community service included in all contracts? Fairly simple question that you have already ducked twice by esclating your insults to me.

As for questioning your "opinions" I apologize. I mistakenly thought when you put forward your opinions you offered them as informed opinions and intended that others rely on them in part to help form their own opinions. I now understand that you believe subjective opinions with no factual support are perfectly appropriate.

[DiamondGirl]

I will watch my use of "most" and "all" in mostly all of my future opinions, assertions, quotes, questions, statements, factual supported opinions, diatribes and whatever else you want to throw my way.

Now can we all mostly move on or do we need to continue this verbal scolding.

[Jennifer]

I will watch my use of "most" and "all" in mostly all of my future opinions, assertions, quotes, questions, statements, factual supported opinions, diatribes and whatever else you want to throw my wayNow can we all mostly move on or do we need to continue this verbal scolding..

Well in view of that response let me ask you this. Is the "community service clause" you described in the Major League Baseball Player Standard Contract or is it something negotiated? If negotiated then how can you be certain that it is in every player's contract?

[realmofotalk]

IMO, the Twins don't own CC if CC has a winning record against them. 4-3 is mediocre? Yes, but the Twins are on the losing end of the record.