Carpenter wins NL Cy Young

[DirtyKash]

"Closer to 3 ER every 9" >>> "less than 2 ER every 7"

And it's not his fault that he pitched with leads. Pitched very well with leads, in fact. Let's punish him for that.

Besides, Carpenter has proven himself in close games also. There are a number of games where he's gone 8-9 innings when it's one-run ballgame:

- April 21: 1-0 ballgame that Carpenter tosses a complete game against the rival Cubs. (Cards score 3 in the bottom of the 8th and Carpenter finishes the deal in the top of the 9th.)

- June 3: 1-0 ballgame that Carpenter goes 8. (Cards do score 1 in the top of the 9th and the game ends 2-0. Great pitching by Carpenter.)

- July 22: 1-1 ballgame that goes 11 innings. Carpenter pitches 9 innings in this huge battle against Zambrano and the rival Cubs.

etc.

He pitches well in the close games, he pitches well in the blowouts.

Also, let's point out that Carpenter had 27 quality starts out of 33 total starts, and only 2 of those QS were of the "6 IP, 3 ER" variety that you so despise.

[CincyRedsFan30]

So you expect a lights out setup pitcher/Closer to give up more than 1 ER per average in their two innings in the majority of starts?

And again, I'm not punishing Carpenter, I'm supporting Clemens. He was involved in a lot of 1-run games this year and was pulled just because Garner had a lot of faith in his bullpen to finish the game off or hold the deficit at one run.

[DirtyKash]

Lights out closer like ... Lidge right? We all saw how lights out this dude is.

[CincyRedsFan30]

He was great during the regular season.

Obviously he had a rough time during the playoffs, but we are talking about the regular season here. This is another example of how small sample size isn't indicative of what a player will bring to the table over the long haul.

[Porter]

lololol at all the reds fans thinking wins are overrated.

Didnt Eric Milton win like 16 games last season for the Phils....

Defense Rests.

[Porter]

There is only 2 important stats. Wins and ERA.

Clemens did not have a good record, but had a great ERA.
Carpenters had an excellent record, and had a pretty good ERA.

It's not that hard.

Wins and ERA is it? cmon ATL your better than that. You can get a win without throwing a pitch. just like saves are overrated for closers.

[Porter]

Lights out closer like ... Lidge right? We all saw how lights out this dude is.

Maybe if the Astros "Lack" of offense would give Lidge a lead more often than not? it wouldnt be an issue would it.

[DirtyKash]

No, but really...any manager will tell you that they'd rather have a Halladay-Carpenter type pitcher who goes 7-8 innings regularly over a Clemens-Pedro type pitcher who goes 6-7 innings regularly. The ability for a pitcher to pitch effectively deeper into games reflects of his superiority. And an ace who is able to rest his bullpen is invaluable for a team; saving a number of relief innings to be used when the #4 and #5 pitcher are on the mound. Carpenter is the better pitcher.

[love_that_reefer]

You are using a lot of small sample size stats. here and unimportant ones as well. You already know about what "Wins" and "Losses" does for me.

Going seven innins while giving up three or fewer ER is a very specific stat. that isolates situations to make them more desirable in favor of one pitcher or another. Twenty two straight Quality Starts is nice, although 3 ER in 6 IP will get you that. You pointing out that he had fewer Walks than Clemens really doesn't mean much either, as the stat. you concede Clemens led in(although slightly) indicates that Clemens gave up fewer Walks AND Hits per Innings pitched, which is more important than just one component or the other. Head to head matchups of a total of two involves a small sample size and really shows nothing at all.

Did Clemens do it? Not even close. You are the one pointing out misleading stats homeboy, not me. He had a very slight lead in all the "important" stats but had pitched eseantially three less CG's than Carpenter and that has a lot to do with it. How did Clemens have fewer walks than Carp per 9 innings when Carp had less walks with 30 more innings? The FACT is Carp didn't rely on that huge offense because they weren't really needed. You make it out as though people made up stats for Carp but there they are right in front of you. Again I will repeat a very important stat that no one has done in 76 years. Repeat, 76 years!!!!!!!!!! He made 16 starts in a row in which he went at least seven innings and never gave up more than three earned runs. Clemens could not do that which makes Carp the better pitcher. You have to just throw out that he had a slight lead in all the rest of the categories cause he didn't have the innings.

[CincyRedsFan30]

You are isolating stats. and making them out to be more important than they've proven to be. If you actually studied what you were talking about, you would see that Clemens had the superior numbers(although not by a large margin).

[General]

Clemens was the king of 6 IP starts. I'll take a guy who goes the distance a lot over Clemens.

[CincyRedsFan30]

You don't just look at who goes the distance. You look at the numbers and histories of pitchers to see if going an extra inning or two really matters while giving up almost a full less Run every nine IP. You see that it doesn't. Quality over quantity. And again, Clemens is not going to stay in as long when his team is down 1-0 or ahead 1-0, which happened often to him. The margin is too close.

[Providence A's]

and the obsession with Roger Clemens continues...

[Fishercat]

I'm not going to read through the whole topic, just a quick list of my opinions, since you all care.

1) Clemens deserved it
2) I'm personally happy he didn't get it, bastage traitor, over NH's own Chris Carpenter
3) The distance between them wasn't THAT significant. It was noticeable IMO that the ERA cancels out the innings, but I'm not upset. Colon over Santana was far worse.

You all have fun!

[Providence A's]

Roger Clemens Roger Clemens Roger Clemens Roger Clemens. Roger Clemens? Roger Clemens. Roger Clemens Roger Clemens Roger Clemens. Roger Clemens Roger Clemens!! Roger Clemens.