Carpenter wins NL Cy Young

[Slyder]

it's just hilarious. the reds are one of the worst run organizations in the league right now. and there is about three or four different reds fan on this thread coming in how wins are over-rated.

No more WS talk BS. It doesn't matter how many Championships your team won 30 years ago. It's irrelevant. The whole "my team has more WS than yours so you can't talk" attitude needs to be dropped ASAP because it is getting quite annoying. All it is really is Reds fans' excuse for their crappy performance in the 21st century.

Let me give a few examples:

Would you rather have

Pitcher A: 15 wins, ERA 4.12, WHIP 1.48 (2002 Cincinnati Reds)
Pitcher B: 14-6, ERA 4.75, WHIP 1.35 (2004 Philadelphia Phillies)
Pitcher C: 15-7, ERA 4.32, WHIP 1.28 (2001 Minnesota Twins)
Clemens stats: 13-8 ERA 1.87, WHIP 1.01

I dont know about you but it shouldnt be his fault that his team couldnt win when he goes 7 IP without giving up a single run (which happened numerous times). I dont care if a guy goes 1-1 with a full season of starts if his ERA is that small the team should be able to hiccup and win at least 30 of those starts (6.2-7 IP less than 1.5 ER per game).

[ATLien]

Terrible examples. Chris Carpenter's ERA was in the 2's. Not above 4's.

Dude pitched well AND won games. Shouldn't get punished for winning. That is beyond retarded.

[Slyder]

Terrible examples. Chris Carpenter's ERA was in the 2's. Not above 4's.

Dude pitched well AND won games. Shouldn't get punished for winning. That is beyond retarded.

I never even said that Clemens should have won. Just trying to show why Wins shouldnt be the end all be all.

[ATLien]

true. but don't front like Carpenter ONLY had wins on his resume. He had a great ERA and K's and all that good jazz. either one would have been the right pick.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Carpenter didn't only have Wins on his resume. He had a good one. It wasn't as good as Clemens' resume though, unless you are using Wins as the ultimate determinate, which is not a good idea.

[Slyder]

Where did I say that Carpenter A) wasnt a good pitcher, B) Didnt deserve it, C) even mention him?

Like I said have an ERA like either of them and I dont care if their record is 1-1 their teams should be able to hiccup and get at least 20 wins of those starts and deserve the Cy Young.

[ATLien]

Nobody is using wins as the ultimate determinate. If Carpenter's ERA was 3+,4+,5+ and still had the wins, he would not have won.

[CincyRedsFan30]

But Clemens led in the majority of the important stats. Wins isn't one of those important stats.

[ATLien]

There is only 2 important stats. Wins and ERA.

Clemens did not have a good record, but had a great ERA.
Carpenters had an excellent record, and had a pretty good ERA.

It's not that hard.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Only two important stats, LOL.

Wins is an extremely overrated stat. for a pitcher.

[awefullspellare]

It has everything to do with it because you've been saying that Carpenter only got the wins he did because of his offense. The point I made shows that offense doesn't always equal wins. So Carpenter played a role, too.

Boo hoo, Clemens lost Thems the breaks.

I don't think anyone said taht was the reason Carpenter won games. There is no doubt he had an amazing year and deserved almost all of those wins. Roger did get shafted on a bunch of wins though. He should have had a much better record. Reefer made a great point though, Roger's innings difference was a factor in his ERA. By taking him out before things got ugly, that ERA stayed low. What would it look like if he had stayed in a few extra innings, because a lot of times pitchers tire and that last inning kills them.

[ATLien]

Clemens finished 3rd behind D-Train & Carpenter.

[DiamondDave]

There is only 2 important stats. Wins and ERA.

Clemens did not have a good record, but had a great ERA.
Carpenters had an excellent record, and had a pretty good ERA.

It's not that hard.

Tell that to Willis who had a better ERA and 1 more Win than Carpenter.....

[DirtyKash]

I'd rather have the starting pitcher who goes 9 innings giving up 2 runs over the dude who goes 7 innings and gives up 1 run and turns it over to the bullpen!

[CincyRedsFan30]

Simple math:

Carpenter gave up closer to 3 ER every 9 IP than 2 ER. Clemens gave up less than 2 ER every 7 IP. Carpenter also worked with leads more often, while Clemens was in a lot of 1-0 games. A Manger is much more worried about leaving a starter in with a 1-0 lead or deficit.