Depo Done

[missionhockey21]

DePodesta's firing was a very poor decision by the Dodgers. They sign the guy for 5 years and fire him only after two? I thought the point of signing DePodesta was to get a GM who could rebuild the Dodgers. It's true that some of his moves were not that impressive, but then again I think he made quite a few more very smart moves for both the present and the future. But given the injuries that the Dodgers suffered, how can anyone expect them to compete last season.

Chalk this up to McCourt's stupidity.

And just like I was a few years ago on the bandwagon for the Reds to pursue DePodesta when the rumor was that he was available, I still am now. Now there is just the question of that pesky problem named Dan O'Brien. Hmmm.

[McKain]

Mission posted an excellent point here.

"They sign the guy for 5 years and fire him only after two?"

The worst decisions in life, business, etcetc never come just because you ACT. They come because you act too QUICKLY. 2 years was certainly not enough to see what DePodesta could do with that team, and hopefully he finds more than 2 years somewhere here soon.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Edit-Yes it does when your fellow Reds fans posted in the first page that they'd like to have DePo replace O'Brien.

It might matter for them. It doesn't matter for me. My thoughts on this issue have been pretty consistent.

[CincyRedsFan30]

All Reds fans must agree.

[realmofotalk]

It might matter for them. It doesn't matter for me. My thoughts on this issue have been pretty consistent.

If it matters for them, then they are part of the conversation. The conversation does not revolve around you.

[CincyRedsFan30]

If it matters for them, then they are part of the conversation. The conversation does not revolve around you.

What are you talking about?

I'm pretty sure your original reply to the topic was directed at me, because I was the Reds fan who critiqued DePo the most on this thread. Plus, your reply was right after my post. Why would you direct something my way and then mention what the OTHER Reds fans were talking about on the post?

You are conflicting yourself. This is what you said at first:

Originally Posted by realmofotalk
"At least DePo didn't go Dan O'Brien and signed Eric Milton. We'll take Lowe."

That statement would seem to indicate you were talking to someone who bashed DePo.

Then you said:

"Edit-Yes it does when your fellow Reds fans posted in the first page that they'd like to have DePo replace O'Brien."

If they wanted DePo to replace O'Brien, then they were obviously voicing support for him(DePo). The statement you made about DePo at least nto signing Milton would seem to be targeted specifically at someone who isn't a DePo fan, which those who want him to replace O'Brien certainly are NOT. That is why I mentioned my specific position on the issue, since you seemed to be referring to my specific comment based on your responses.

[realmofotalk]

It's simple. You believe Dan O'Brien should not be mentioned in this thread because it has nothing to do with DePodesta. However, since Slyder and RRB expressed that they would like DePo to replace O'Brien, while you would oppose the hiring of DePo based on your opinion of him, I added that DePo wouldn't have signed Milton, meaning that DePo would be an upgrade over O'Brien. Whether you believe he's as much as an upgrade as Slyder and RRB may believe is up to you.

[realmofotalk]

Maybe I shouldn't have used "fellow" since I wasn't including you on the side of Slyder and RRB.

[CincyRedsFan30]

That certainly would have been a better choice(or lack thereof in this case) of words.

[Fishercat]

Another take on Depodesta, obviously a pro-view (or at least anti-Plaschke). Credit goes to the Son of Sam Horn Poster "Paradigm" and I believe this is his blog.

Sinking in Chavez Ravine
October 30, 2005, 12:59 pm | Link to this post

In today’s Los Angeles Times, Bill Plaschke spends his Sunday morning praising Dodgers owner Frank McCourt for having the moxie to fire general manager Paul Depodesta with three years remaining on his contract. Plaschke takes every opportunity to eliminate any regard for Depodesta’s success during his tenure and hold him solely responsible for the team’s demise in 2005.

I can’t understand how Plaschke described Depodesta as “the most invisible No. 2 executive in the game” while he was working for Oakland. If anything, wasn’t Depodesta arguably the most prominent assistant general manager while he was in Oakland? There were pages and chapters written about him in Moneyball – much more than can be said about Ruben Amaro, Jr. or whoever is the assistant GM in Seattle or Tampa Bay (honestly, who can name those people off the top of their heads?)

Even when noting the Dodgers’ success in 2004 – winning the NL West and taking one game from St. Louis in the National League Division Series – he does it with a sour tone, saying that Depodesta “tore apart” the Dodgers midway through 2004. Of course, the only thing that’s referencing is Depodesta’s decision to trade Paul Lo Duca, Guillermo Mota and Juan Encarnacion for Brad Penny and Hee Seop Choi. Depodesta had the foresight to know that Choi is a moderately powered platoon first baseman who can also play the outfield, and I’m never upset when someone trades Juan Encarnacion. Of course, the issue lies in Depodesta’s willingness to trade Paul Lo Duca – formerly the cornerstone of the Dodger clubhouse, who ended up hitting a very mediocre .283/.334/.714 for the Florida Marlins. Brad Penny, the centerpiece of the deal, was in the middle of his best year as a pro. Having shined in the 2003 postseason, he was throwing with a 3.15 ERA over 131.3 innings for Florida before being shipped to Los Angeles and promptly being shut down because of a nerve issue.

Depodesta apparently also “gutted” the Dodger bullpen, but I still see Wilson Alvarez, Yhency Brazoban, Duaner Sanchez, Giovanni Cararra and Elmer Dessens. I guess Plaschke would have been content if Darren Dreifort was still pitching through pain or Tom Martin was still taking up important innings.

But Plaschke won’t quit. He even indicts Depodesta for not asking the Angels permission to speak with Mike Scioscia for their open managerial position. I’ll yield a bit here: I’m just a writer on the east coast who’s never been in either clubhouse, but as a discerning baseball fan, I can’t find one reason why Mike Scioscia would want to leave his nest in Anaheim – a team that, you may recall, just played in the American League Championship Series – for a chance to jump to the lucrative NL West and manage the Dodgers. Last time I checked, this wasn’t Roy Williams leaving Kansas for North Carolina. The prestige doesn’t seem all that great.

Somehow, Depodesta is even blamed for the Dodger injuries that decimated their season and cost them hundreds of days on the disabled list. Plaschke claims that Depodesta shouldn’t have signed JD Drew and Odalis Perez. He should have known this was going to happen. He should have been able to predict that JD Drew was going to be hit by a pitch and break his wrist. But that can be blamed on Drew’s history of injuries, so chalk another failure up for Depo.

It’s disgusting, really. Paul Depodesta opened his season with JD Drew, Cezar Izturis, Milton Bradley and Jose Valentin in his opening day lineup, and by the end of the year they were replaced with Willy Aybar, Oscar Robles, Jason Repko, Mike Edwards and Jason Grabowski.

Never mind the throwaway praise that Plaschke offers Depodesta for signing Jeff Kent (who was only marginally the second-best second baseman in the National League) and trading for Steve Finley. And never mind the fact that Depodesta let Adrian Beltre slide away into complete, utter mediocrity in Seattle and that Shawn Green produced a measly 22 home runs in Arizona. Forget Eric Gagne, too. Let’s chalk that injury up to Depodesta as well.

Paul Depodesta can’t be blamed for his team’s malfeasance this year. I’m pretty confident that while his team was struggling, he wasn’t sitting at his computer playing SimCity or hacking into the Rockies’ network to try and find more data about their upcoming matchup. Depodesta has been given a bad rap, and this brutal offering by Bill Plaschke does nothing to help matters.

As Plaschke nears his conclusion, he remarks that Depodesta will “undoubtedly become a great No. 2 executive somewhere else.”

Undoubtedly?

Why so sure, Bill? This is the same Bill James-wielding cancer that so terribly crippled your Dodgers, and you’re undoubtedly assured that he’ll maintain a future in baseball? I’m lucky to have such a talented mind leading the Red Sox, but I’m sure that many other teams would be willing to take an innovative mind like Depodesta’s and put it at the helm of their franchise. I’m sure we’ll be able to strike that “No. 2” soon enough.

An interesting criticism of the criticisms of Depo.

[CincyRedsFan30]

I'm in agreement with the classy Bill Plaschke again. I've had some great email exchanges with him recently. He is a quality guy and a great writer.

Whoever wrote the above article needs some lessons from Bill, IMO.

And as a side bar: Plaschke isn't a total "stat. hater" or anything like that. In fact, he uses more stats. than anyone else on ATH. He has cited OBP, etc. multiple times.

[Fishercat]

May I ask your criticism of the blogger's take on the Plaschke article? FWIW, I agree with the blogger, but I'm always open to ideas on why Depo was wrong to make these deals and why, in this case, Bill is right.

[CincyRedsFan30]

The article is poorly written. It doesn't use good journalistic techniques. It also proves nothing, as DePodesta took a division winner and turned it into a big mess.

This is one of those matter of opinion issues that I often get attacked over. If anything, the stats. support me. At worst, there is no conclusive answer.

[Fishercat]

It's not really an article, it's just a blog's take. Kind of like a post here, just more formal.

All he was trying to prove (although it isn't something you can prove) is that Plaschke's opinions on the Depo-McCourt issue are wrong.

I just want some stats that show the trade deadline deal was detrimental to the club or that his offseason acquisitions destroyed the Dodgers, or anything that he could control led to the Dodgers massive downfall. I never got the hate for Depo, and it's a curious issue.

[CincyRedsFan30]

The team was (71-91). I look the issue of success versus failure. That's why I'm pleased with the Reds' history of five World Championships, UK's 7 National Titles, etc. My standards all revolve around winning. DePodesta won the division with Evans' team and then made changes that put the team in a worse place last year than it had been before he took over. His team was worse than O'Brien's team last year,and in a worse division.

I don't have to like DePodesta and I don't have to like Beane. I don't really care who likes or doesn't like that fact.

And I find it interesting that you decide to jump in on another issue of opinion, as you always seem to do when it comes to me. Yet on issues involving only FACT(such as the Cy Young thread), you never seemed to attack the posts directly of those who used non-facts to support their positions.

Some need to get over their obsession and hatred of me.