Baltimore Orioles
Boston Red Sox
New York Yankees
Tampa Bay Rays
Toronto Blue Jays
Chicago White Sox
Cleveland Indians
Detroit Tigers
Kansas City Royals
Minnesota Twins
Houston Astros
LA Angels
Oakland Athleticss
Seattle Mariners
Texas Rangers
Atlanta Braves
Miami Marlins
New York Mets
Philadelphia Phillies
Washington Nationals
Chicago Cubs
Cincinnati Reds
Milwaukee Brewers
Pittsburgh Pirates
St. Louis Cardinals
Arizona Diamondbacks
Colorado Rockies
Los Angeles Dodgers
San Diego Padres
San Francisco GiantsNO!!!, Just because he's not deserving he gets no love. The only guy that should be lower on this list than him is Dice-K.Originally Posted by bwitty24
NO!!!, Just because he's not deserving he gets no love. The only guy that should be lower on this list than him is Dice-K.
explain yourself please
o my bad. for some reason i remember him having a higher ERA. either way, Mo's is over a whole Run lower
Agreed, but Mo has also lost a couple of games where he came in with a tie. Yeah, it's not a blow save, but he did BLOW the game itself. I agree with your pressure innings argument to a point, but if a starter goes deep into a game and is tied, and he holds the other team there for the 6th and 7th innings and allows his team to take a lead, at least he played a role in earning a win....the save....his team already took the lead. Basically, he's doing what he's EXPECTED to do. So, yes, Mo is having an EXCELLENT year, but he's not the Cy Young.
that situation with a starter is different though LJ. A closer is instantly thrust into the pressure situation. a starter has been allowed to pitch for 6 or 7 innings prior, and is probably in a groove. the closer has to have it right out of the gate. that's a whole different mentality and a whole lot more difficult
Idk, it depends. a 3 run lead with one inning to go is a save situation. So, just because it's a save situation doesn't mean it's THAT much pressure. Any major league pitcher should be able to get out of the 9th up 3 runs...
exactly LJ. which is why i think Mo's 0.37 ERA in save situations vs. K-Rod's 2.23 ERA is so much more amazing than K-Rod having more saves. because K-Rod comes in with 3 run leads, gives up 1 or 2 runs, and still gets the save. Mo doesn't allow ANY runs.
That's not true. He's LOST more games than K-Rod. Again, I still say Mo is the best closer in the game, but I just don't think he's a Cy Young...I mean, 12 of his saves, Mo came in with a multiple run lead.
The nerve of him!
I did a lot of good things as a sim league GM.
Ah, give me something clever to say here.
Bias doesn't exist, just like Alf and the Easter Bunny.
If Reefer put Trevor Hoffman on either of the Cy Young polls, he would have gotten Leo's vote.
Marshall: MILSWANCAs?
Ted: Wait, I can get this. Mothers I'd like to sleep with and never call again.
Barney: Circle gets the square!
The 2074 MSL NL Gold Glove Recipient at Third Base.
That's not what I'm saying. I am in no way disrespecting Mo, I feel like I've made it very clear that I think there are none better. However, I wouldn't give him my vote for CY(assuming I had one).
Well, first off I believe a starter is far more important than a relief pitcher. A starter must go through the lineup multiple times to be effective. He must alter his pitching attack a little each time through the lineup to keep the hitters off balance. Closers can potentially come in, pitch to three batters that haven't seen him in weeks and get a "save". You stated that closers come in in "pressure situations", well if a starter is in a close game, say it's scoreless going into the 7th, he's been under pressure ever since the second or third inning when it became evident this was going to be a pitching duel. Those 3 outs that he comes into get in the 9th aren't any different than the 3 outs that the starter got in the 1st. I do agree with you that wins are somewhat out of a pitcher's hand, if the team can't score runs, then the pitcher doesn't get a win. Why did I put Dice-K below Rivera? Like I said he's a starting pitcher that is averaging 5.5 innings per start, that's pathetic. He's relying on his team more than anything. He walks to many, throws too many pitches, and regardless of what others have posted in this topic, if he keeps walking guys he will get burnt. It's a good thing Boston has plenty of quality starters to follow Dice-Walk up, because if their whole rotation was like him the bullpen would be full of dead arms by now. Quite honestly, John Danks should probably be below Rivera too, I kind of forgot about him. You keep putting a lot of emphasis on ERA, and WHIP and none on Saves, Wins and Innings... So by your standards where would you put Brad Zeigler of Oakland? He hasn't given up an earned run yet, so has he been more effective than Rivera?
Mo!
Register To Reply
