Who would you want in the 9th

[bwitty24]

junc, you can't argue with a "Bonds Defender". He can't have any common sense.

ha jk

[nyjunc]

You obviously have no grasp on the concept of small sample sizes.

I get it but you do not understand how dominant Mariano has been. Hoffman gave up 5 runs in 13 innings which means to equal Mariano he'd have to give up 5 runs in his next 104 innings- it wouldn't happen if Hoffman was at his peak and if Hoffman pitched a little better his sample size would be bigger b/c SD would have won a few more series.

Going forward and right now I would take those two. Nathan has been better than Mo for the past four years including now!! In regards to Krod, I am saying give him those innings and his ERA will no doubt be CLOSER to Mo's. You said it was an insult to compare Nathan to Mo and the insult is not seeing that Nathan is indeed better than Mo and has been. Today if I had to pick one closer it would be Nathan.

Nathan and Rivera have been very similar the last 4 years prior to this year BUT again when it matters most Nathan has a 7.50 ERA while Rivera in the same span had a .88 ERA. Rivera reall struggled the past 4 postseasons which is why his ERA over that span was a whopping .88.

Oh and Nathan has 5 ER in 6 postseason inning spitched but I know it's about sample size, he would clearly give up 5 or less in 111 more postseason innings.

Career wise and especially postseason wise(which obviously factors into it) it is an insult to compare any of these guys w/ Mariano. There is not a guy I'd rather see on the mound in a big spot than Mariano.

Ozzie Smith played in a different era than Jeter, Smith's era SS werent known to be good hitters, him having a career avg of .260 is okay based on the era he played in, compare to Jeter's.

And if you fail to understand the concept of an "analogy" you shouldn't be debating IMO.

WHAT??? I get anaologies but if you are going to use one make it relevant, your analogy was a very poor one.

[HollywoodLeo]

I get it but you do not understand how dominant Mariano has been.

Wrong. I do understand how dominant he's been, and that's why I said I'd take him over Trevor.

Remember, I'm only arguing the notion that it's somehow an insult to put Trevor in the same league as him.

I'm not the but hurt homer that's insulted at the notion that there just might be another closer in the league that's just about as good as the closer for my favorite team.

Hoffman gave up 5 runs in 13 innings which means to equal Mariano he'd have to give up 5 runs in his next 104 innings- it wouldn't happen if Hoffman was at his peak

Again you display your failure to comprehend the concept of small sample sizes.

We don't know if those were simply a few bad innings or the norm.

13 innings is hardly enough to draw a conclusion.

and if Hoffman pitched a little better his sample size would be bigger b/c SD would have won a few more series.

The fact that it wouldn't be much bigger notwithstanding, this doesn't negate the fact that it's still just 13 innings (as compared to the 970 2/3 he's pitched in the regular season) that we're discussing here.

[nyjunc]

I'm not the but hurt homer that's insulted at the notion that there just might be another closer in the league that's just about as good as the closer for my favorite team.

i';m a homer b/c I think Mariano is by far the best opf his generation when all the #s support my argument? I'm not saying John Franco was one of the greats, I'm saying MARIANO RIVERA is by far the best of his generation and it's a fact. There are plenty of other excellent closers but not one sane baseball fan would choose any of them over vintage Mariano in a big spot. He is THE biggest reason the Yankees won 4 Championships in 5 years.

Again you display your failure to comprehend the concept of small sample sizes.

We don't know if those were simply a few bad innings or the norm.

13 innings is hardly enough to draw a conclusion.

But you are telling me he'll be close to giving up just 5 runs in 104 more innings. That's the only way he can catch Mariano. You can use the sample size excuse but it doesn't fly. Hoffman was average in postseason, Mariano is the standard.

The fact that it wouldn't be much bigger notwithstanding, this doesn't negate the fact that it's still just 13 innings (as compared to the 970 2/3 he's pitched in the regular season) that we're discussing here.

and mariano's reg season #s are better. What makes the difference great is how great Marinao has been in october and how average Hoffman has been.

[HollywoodLeo]

i';m a homer b/c I think Mariano is by far the best opf his generation when all the #s support my argument? I'm not saying John Franco was one of the greats, I'm saying MARIANO RIVERA is by far the best of his generation and it's a fact. There are plenty of other excellent closers but not one sane baseball fan would choose any of them over vintage Mariano in a big spot. He is THE biggest reason the Yankees won 4 Championships in 5 years.

You're not a homer because you're saying Mariano is great.

You're not even a homer because you're saying he's the best.

You're a homer because you suggest it's somehow an insult for someone else to think otherwise and think someone like Trevor was better like as though he's comparing David Weathers to Mariano or something.

But you are telling me he'll be close to giving up just 5 runs in 104 more innings. That's the only way he can catch Mariano. You can use the sample size excuse but it doesn't fly. Hoffman was average in postseason, Mariano is the standard.

I'm not saying he would or wouldn't do anything in future chances in the post season.

I'm only saying we can't draw any conclusive conclusions as to what he may have done in future post season endeavors because we only have 13 innings to look at.

Furthermore, he wouldn't have to match Mariano, he'd only have to roughly equal him.

In a world where Trevor had the same amount of opportunities to prove himself as Mariano, had those bad innings in the 13 innings, but also proved to be equally, or more dominant the rest of the time, one could argue that he's better, but simply had a few bad games.

Now, getting away from the world of make believe and back into reality, I'll still take Mariano because proven is better than insufficient data.

I'm simply highlighting why 13 innings is hardly enough to draw the conclusion you want to.

and mariano's reg season #s are better.

The numbers are not so far apart that it's an insult for someone to disagree with you.

What makes the difference great is how great Marinao has been in october and how average Hoffman has been.

What makes the difference is how great Mariano has been in the playoffs and how Trevor hasn't had the same opportunities as he has to be just as great.

[love_that_reefer]

Nathan and Rivera have been very similar the last 4 years prior to this year BUT again when it matters most Nathan has a 7.50 ERA while Rivera in the same span had a .88 ERA. Rivera reall struggled the past 4 postseasons which is why his ERA over that span was a whopping .88.

Oh and Nathan has 5 ER in 6 postseason inning spitched but I know it's about sample size, he would clearly give up 5 or less in 111 more postseason innings.

Career wise and especially postseason wise(which obviously factors into it) it is an insult to compare any of these guys w/ Mariano. There is not a guy I'd rather see on the mound in a big spot than Mariano.

The past four years they are similar with Nathan having the clear advantage. Ever since Nathan became a closer he has been better than Mo. And yes, give Nathan those innings as closer and he would be near the 1 ER mark just like Rivera. Your homerism is quite disturbing since you can't see this. If we are going by the similar argument then my argument about KRod and Nathan having the innings in the postseason MO has then they would be similar.

Nathan hardly has any postseason experience as a closer so your point makes no sense. He has only given up two runs in four innings as closer. When it counts, he's as good as anyone in the game and has a great K/9 ratio!!

Career wise of course its MO which we have all been saying but right now I would take Nathan over MO.

[nyjunc]

You guys are crazy, you take Nathan and Rodriguez and whoever else you want and I'll build around Rivera and I guarantee my team would have more postseason success than your team. Nathan has to puitch 11 innings allowing just 5 runs over that span to catch Rivera in postseason, he's given up 5 in 6 IP so far but give him those extra innings and he's sure to catch Rivera

[love_that_reefer]

I will gladly let you build around a 40 yr old closer and I will build around Nathan. You will not have more success.

[nyjunc]

I will gladly let you build around a 40 yr old closer and I will build around Nathan. You will not have more success.

Going forward I can buy that line of thinking solely b/c of age but Marinano's career vs. Nathan and othgers is no contest.

And yes, give Nathan those innings as closer and he would be near the 1 ER mark just like Rivera.

This is one of the funniest comments I have veer seen on a message board

The man has given up 5 ER in 6 IP, you think he'll give up close to 6 in 111 more innings? This is pure comedy.

Your homerism is quite disturbing since you can't see this. If we are going by the similar argument then my argument about KRod and Nathan having the innings in the postseason MO has then they would be similar.

You can hide behind the homerism comment but the facts support my stance. There's no way Nathan gives up just 5 more runs in 111 innings if he was able to gte those innings in postseason. There's no way Rodriguez gives up just 1 more ER in 88 more postseason innings. I don't care if these guys were at their absolute peak for those innings there's no shot they'd come close to Mariano. You call me a homer, i call it Yankee hating at it's finest.

Nathan hardly has any postseason experience as a closer so your point makes no sense. He has only given up two runs in four innings as closer. When it counts, he's as good as anyone in the game and has a great K/9 ratio!!

"ONLY" 2 runs in 4 innings? So he projects to about 58-59 runs in 117- just like Marinao, right?

As a setup guy Mariano pitched 19 2/3 innings allowing just 1 ER, Nathan pitched a third of an inning alllowing 3 ER so Marinao was a better setup man too

[love_that_reefer]

he's only given up two runs as a closer. You are the one who is hilarious and wanjts the similar argument. Give up! I would take Nathan over MO and its not even close. At least Nathan is not associated with THE biggest choke in sports history.

[bwitty24]

ESPN - Honoring the very best (and worst) of the first half - MLB

See AL Cy of the half year.

[love_that_reefer]

Saw it and don't buy it. The Duke of Oakland deserves but MO has been great this year. That is undeniable.

[nyjunc]

he's only given up two runs as a closer. You are the one who is hilarious and wanjts the similar argument. Give up! I would take Nathan over MO and its not even close. At least Nathan is not associated with THE biggest choke in sports history.

2 runs in 5 2/3 innings. His ERA as a posteason closer is 3.46, which is b etter .77 or 3.46? But I'm sure if he pitched 112 more postseason innings he'd only give 5 more runs to equal Mariano

[love_that_reefer]

It would be "similar" remember

[nyjunc]

Read the article below:

What would my idol say about K-Rod's chase of the saves record? - Tom Verducci - SI.com