Torre to be fired?

[Dry1313]

I'm sorry, but what dearth of good young pitching was out there to acquire? There was none. Cashman can't rectify all of his mistakes, after all there was no good pitcher to acquire who wouldn't require Phillip Hughes. Sorry, but we'd rather have him than Zito, wo we could get this offseason anyway.

Cashman did a great job this year. I've called into question many of his previous moves, but every move coming into this year and during the year was great. You can't deny that. So why would he be fired? For past transgressions? No. They would have fired him already.

Torre is different. Sure, he was the manager we loved in the golden years, but just look at how our seasons shaped up since our last World Series win:
2001: Win DS, CS, Fight to the end, lose in 7 to the DBacks.
2002: Humiliated by the Angels in the DS...no one shows up to play.
2003:Win DS, CS, Humiliated by Marlins...no one shows up to play,
2004: Win DS, Go up 3-0 on BoSox, become first ML team to lose 4 straight playoff games after being up 3-0...
2005: Mutilated in DS by Angels, team chokes in final game.
2006: Humiliated by Tigers in DS.

None of those years were positive. Even in 2001 we lost when we shouldn't have, with Mo on the mound in the 9th. Granted, for some teams, this is actually a good run (Braves). But for the Yankees, and I'm not condoning this, it is complete failure. It's not like we lost fighting for our lives, except maybe in 2001. Ever since then, we haven't showed up to play in the postseason.

[Dry1313]

Would getting Abreu have made a difference in the fate of this year's Red Sox? I highly doubt it. Injuries to so many key players and a lack of pitching killed the Red Sox!!!!! Last time I checked, Abreu wasn't a pitcher, had we gotten him, even if the Sox had made the playoffs over the Yankees, we would have suffered the same fate as the Yankees... An early exit because we didn't have enough pitching. Thanks, but no thanks. The Yankees acquired him, and now they can pay his overpriced salary, in a lineup that didn't and doesn't need another big bat. Hopefully the Sox will use that money on pitching, not another outfielder. I'm glad you are pleased with the acquistion of Abreu and your teams first round exit of the playoffs. I'm no more displeased with our 3rd place finish than I would have been had the Red Sox suffered the same fate!!!!!!

Stop acting like your team only lost because of injuries. That's bullshit and you know it. Your team was healthy when we swept 5 games from you in your house. Granted, you lost Lester Ramirez, Pena, and more, but that was well after the fact.

And actually, we were floundering before Abreu, but he helped solidify our lineup before all these great hitters got back. You seem to forget Cano, Sheff and Matsui were all out longer than any of your players. And your pitching was significantly better than ours. And as far as Abreu being overpriced, for hitting .320 plus with a .400 plus OBP and .800+ OPS, his salary isn't really that overpriced.

[love_that_reefer]

It ostly lies with the players on the field, not the manager and every single player will tell you that. Even Vernon Wells said that on Baseball Tonight. Yes, Cashman should go for this year's and past transactions. The Abreu move proved to be nothing good. Sure you got him for nothing but that's the it was always going to be due to his hefty and over priced salary. Kyle Farnsworth? Ron Villone? Dotel? Erickson? Ponson? This is a great job this year? You cannot believe your own bullshit can you?

[Fishercat]

Actually, the Red Sox had him acquired, but Epstien wanted $2 mil of his salary paid by the Phils. Thus, we get an All-Star hitter the second half, and your team falls into depression.

It was a great deal.

I want to see the article that said that. I never heard that.

[love_that_reefer]

Stop acting like your team only lost because of injuries. That's bullshit and you know it. Your team was healthy when we swept 5 games from you in your house. Granted, you lost Lester Ramirez, Pena, and more, but that was well after the fact.

I love how you left out Varitek, the team captain who was the key to that "better" pitching staff.

[Fishercat]

Your team was healthy when we swept 5 games from you in your house.

You know, except for Jason Varitek, Trot Nixon, and Matt Clement (not that he would have helped). That's not a 10 game difference over 2 months, but don't act like the Red Sox were completely healthy either at that time.

[Dry1313]

It ostly lies with the players on the field, not the manager and every single player will tell you that. Even Vernon Wells said that on Baseball Tonight. Yes, Cashman should go for this year's and past transactions. The Abreu move proved to be nothing good. Sure you got him for nothing but that's the it was always going to be due to his hefty and over priced salary. Kyle Farnsworth? Ron Villone? Dotel? Erickson? Ponson? This is a great job this year? You cannot believe your own bullshit can you?

Are you an idiot? I think you are. Cashman got Erickson and Ponson for free. They don't account for anything.

But Farnsworth and Villone were lights out in the beginning of the year, then died from Torre's overuse. And Abreu was practically for free, and you're telling me that his stellar defense and clutch and amazing hitting wasn't worth CJ Henry? Dotel isn't fully healed yeat anyway, so you can't say that was a bad move. We took him through rehab, he was free too.

And it mostly lies with the players on the field...OK. But the manager can spark life into the players and prepare them to play a series. Maybe get the team into the game by setting the runners in motion. You know this, Felipe Alou has done the same thing to your team. Sitting back and doing nothing. It then makes it all up to the players. The only problem is, when your manager does this he becomes expendable. Because maybe a different approach would work better, and for 6 years Torre hasn't changed his.

[Dry1313]

It was a report on Baseball Tonight, echoed on ESPN Radio 1050 in New York.

Apparently, the Red Sox had the same type of deal in place, where the got Abreu and Lidle, but with the added $$ in Lidle's salary, they didn't want to pay all Abreu's money. But the Yankees did pay it, and thus they got them both.

[Fishercat]

Since you watched the Yankees, you're more privy to a good explanation, but how was Farnsy overused.

Monthly IP totals
ARP: 9.1
MAY: 14.2
JUN: 12.0
JUL: 10.1
AUG: 8.2
SEPT: 10.0
OVR: 66

None of those months seem overly stressful to me (unlike Villone's JUL-AUG), and if you're paying 5.5 mil to him this year, I'd expect an RP good for that amount of months

[Fishercat]

I swear I never heard that report. I'll believe you, but this is the first I've heard of it.

[GiantsFanatic]

I love how you left out Varitek, the team captain who was the key to that "better" pitching staff.

Owned

[Fishercat]

I also forgot to mention Wakefield.

[love_that_reefer]

Are you an idiot? I think you are. Cashman got Erickson and Ponson for free. They don't account for anything.

But Farnsworth and Villone were lights out in the beginning of the year, then died from Torre's overuse. And Abreu was practically for free, and you're telling me that his stellar defense and clutch and amazing hitting wasn't worth CJ Henry? Dotel isn't fully healed yeat anyway, so you can't say that was a bad move. We took him through rehab, he was free too.

And it mostly lies with the players on the field...OK. But the manager can spark life into the players and prepare them to play a series. Maybe get the team into the game by setting the runners in motion. You know this, Felipe Alou has done the same thing to your team. Sitting back and doing nothing. It then makes it all up to the players. The only problem is, when your manager does this he becomes expendable. Because maybe a different approach would work better, and for 6 years Torre hasn't changed his.

First off, you are the idiot if you think just because Ponson and Erickson were free then its OK. The Yankees needed real solutions and not "free" players. Secondly, Villone was not overused by any means. Thirdly, Farnsworth was never untouchable! Next, I already explained why Abreu was practically free. Yes he turned out to be good in one of the best lineups but YOU NEEDED PITCHING!!!! Cashamn has done the same thing since getting there, maybe a change for him? To try and defend Cashman is like a republican trying to defend Bush. YOU ARE BLIND!!

Don't ever try to tell me about what Felipe Alou did since you have already made it clear in past posts that you really don't follow the NL. Alou did a lot of things as a manager but they were all the wrong things. He never had a set lineup which meant he was constantly changing it and he used four pitchers an inning.

Oh yeah, I am not an idiot

[Dry1313]

You follow the Yankees about as much as I follow the Giants. I think I know just a little more about the workings of my team. And, I understand we needed pitching, but please, point out to me what was available to acquire.

Fisher, I don't know if you can look this up, but frequently, Farnsy would be used back to back to back, sometime 2 innings at a time, and not pitch for a week after that. Someone who throws with his mechanics and speed usually needs more regular work than the sporadic work Torre gave him. Plus Torre is known for overworking the bullpen, just look at all the times we;ve had the leader in appearances since he's been manager. He always has 1 setup man who can't handle the load, sometimes two (recently, Quantrill and Farnsworth/Villone) and one guy who he pitches so much his effectiveness starts to wear off (Gordon/Proctor).

And yeah, I left Varitek off. I also left Ortiz off. Funny how you didn't notice him.

[Dry1313]

Don't ever try to tell me about what Felipe Alou did since you have already made it clear in past posts that you really don't follow the NL. Alou did a lot of things as a manager but they were all the wrong things. He never had a set lineup which meant he was constantly changing it and he used four pitchers an inning.

So wait, by this logic, since you don't watch nearly enough AL Baseball as I do, you can't comment on my teams working either. Unless you have some mystifying power which I don't where you magically are the only one who ever watches both the AL and NL. How many Yankee Games do you watch a year? Not 162, probably not even 20.