wins/losses (for pitchers)= most overated stat in sports

[HollywoodLeo]

And today we saw a prime example of why in the Padres/Dodgers game.

Chris Young pitches 6 2/3 strong innings and gets pulled in the 7th for Scott Cassidy with a 4-1 lead.

What happens next? Scott Cassidy promptly gives up a 3 run HR tying the game, and then gets the next guy out.

Then, in the 8th inning the Padres blow up for 5 runs, followed up by 2 more in the 9th.

So, what happens here is Scott Cassidy is awarded a win for coming into the game and giving up a game-tying HR, followed by one out.

where's joek when you need him?

[redsfan28]

A pitcher's win/loss record is the equivalent to a hitter's batting average. They're both irrelevant.

[HollywoodLeo]

at least a batter has a lot more control over whether or not he gets on base 3 out of 10 times.

[Saber]

Batting average is hugely important to a player's offense.

The stat you want to compare wins to are RBI.

[rockin500]

A pitcher's win/loss record is the equivalent to a hitter's batting average. They're both irrelevant.

thats crazy talk.

a batting average is certainly relevant in grading a players offense. Its certainly not the most important factor, but by declaring it irrelevant, you are saying you dont know much about baseball.

[Kingdom]

Hey Leo, when you get a break from being Nate Kaeding's body guard, send that memo to the voters on the Cy Young award.

Thanks!

[redsfan28]

thats crazy talk.

a batting average is certainly relevant in grading a players offense. Its certainly not the most important factor, but by declaring it irrelevant, you are saying you dont know much about baseball.

Adam Dunn is the posterboy for why batting average is irrelevant. He consistently hits .240, but hits a ton of HR's and gets on base at a .450 clip. OPS surplanted batting average as the true gauge of how effective a hitter is about 10 years ago.

Sean Casey is also a good example of why batting average is irrelevant. Casey consistently hits at around .310 or so, but barely drives in runs. He's a pure singles hitter, which makes for a nice batting average, but not a good offensive player.

When you consider batting average, it doesn't take into account on what types of hits those are. If they are all singles that don't amount to much offensively, then batting average has no meaning. The truly relevant batting stats are OPS, RBIs, and what the player does with runners in scoring position. Those are the ones that truly tell you how effective a hitter really is.

[HollywoodLeo]

gets on base at a .900 clip.

somehow I find that hard to believe.

[HollywoodLeo]

and I agree that OPS is more important than Average, but you can't discount average either.

Hell, you can't even discount wins/losses, you just have to keep in mind how much can happen to ruin the w/l record that's beyond the pitcher's control and/or reasonable expectations from the pitcher. (such as getting a loss in a 1-0 game.)

[redsfan28]

Hell, you can't even discount wins/losses, you just have to keep in mind how much can happen to ruin the w/l record that's beyond the pitcher's control and/or reasonable expectations from the pitcher. (such as getting a loss in a 1-0 game.)

That is exactly why win/loss record is irrelevant. A pitcher can go 4-10 with a 2.35 ERA, striking out a lot of batters while not giving up a lot of walks and still be considered a great pitcher that just didn't get any run support.

[HollywoodLeo]

Its because he draws a heck of a lot of walks.

I'm not going to even look up the stats to confirm because I find it hard to believe, especially with the number of times he strikes out, that Adam Dunn gets on base 9 times out of 10 plate appearances.

My gut tells me you're talking about OPS and not On Base Percentage (which is what you imply when you state he gets on base at a .900 clip)

[redsfan28]

That's what I meant.

[Kingdom]

OPS tends to make Adam Dunn look Godly.
Which, he's not.

[love_that_reefer]

Depends on the player as you guys have clearly pointed out!

[A'sDiehard]

Another stat that can be somewhat overrated is a middle reliever's era; the more important stat is how many of their inherited runners have scored.