Jeff Kent Retires

[love_that_reefer]

A few points to Dry's little post:

-Sorry I proved you wrong when you said Kent never lead the league in anything.

-Please stop comparing Kent to other non-second baseman. Its pointless and doesn;t prove anything.

-I am sure Hornsby and all the rest you mentioned are just happy with what I said. I view Sandberg to have played in a much tougher, more athletic era of baseball then all of those you mentioned. Joe Morgan has already said Sandberg was better than he was. Sandberg did it all. Played good defense, hit for average, power and stole bases. Yes, I find him better than guys that played way back when.

-Not one single person has said one season makes you a HOFer. We are giving career stats here!! Kent being a MVP is part of that resume. Also, Kent is good in a lot of categories!! Where are you pulling this shit out, man?

-Wonder why Kent won the MVP over Todd Helton? Giants finished in first, Rockies finished in 4th.

-Please find any proof or at least the tiniest shred of proof before making the incredibly dumb accusation based on nothing that Kent used steroids. This has to be the dumbest ****ing thing I have ever read from you. It has no backing, no proof, no nothing! Pathetic!

- Kent was never a liability at second base, he was league average. Comapring him to Matt Williams doesn;t do you any justice either. One, he played a different position and two, Williams was a good defender at third base.

-Pointing out that Kent was the first second baseman to win a MVP since Ryne Sandberg shows just how rare it is for a second baseman to win the award. Again, no one is saying one season merits a HOF vote. Too bad you missed the point. All caps is not needed as it makes you look dumber when I point these things out.

-Yes, I have heard of Roberto Alomar. He too is a HOFer. Was there a point? Still doesn't change that Kent is one of the best offensive second baseman in the history of the game.

[love_that_reefer]

Dugout Central » Kent Should Get the Call in 2014

Great article on the subject

[Dry1313]

A few points to Dry's little post:

-Sorry I proved you wrong when you said Kent never lead the league in anything.

I meant anything worthwhile.

Or next thing I notice will someone argue that Mo Vaughn deserves in because even though he was injury prone and didn't sustain full seasons often ONCE, in 1996, he led the AL in Plate Appearances! (That's the better version of leading the league in Sac Flies. At least Vaughn had influence on that stat...it wasn't just that he happened to come up to bat with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs).

-Please stop comparing Kent to other non-second baseman. Its pointless and doesn;t prove anything.

I will when someone provides a tangible stat dictating why his defensive position is important to his HOF resume besides the fact that he hit well playing there.

The reason why 2nd basemen aren't supposed to hit HR are because they need to have range and good defense; Kent had neither, finishing with a FP and RF below league average, 0 GG, etc., etc.

So are you saying that if we slotted Larry Walker at 2B, allowed him to **** our team with poor defense there, that he would be a HOF because of his outstanding hitting?

To be considered one of the great 2B, one has to actually be able to be LEAGUE AVERAGE at fielding the position in my mind. He was just a 1B/3B playing out of position.

-I am sure Hornsby and all the rest you mentioned are just happy with what I said. I view Sandberg to have played in a much tougher, more athletic era of baseball then all of those you mentioned. Joe Morgan has already said Sandberg was better than he was. Sandberg did it all. Played good defense, hit for average, power and stole bases. Yes, I find him better than guys that played way back when.

Yeah. Sure.

Ryne Sandberg had less HR than Hornsby, less H, a way lower AVG, less MVPs, and even though Rogers Hornsby won the Triple Crown 2x, is 3rd in the Black Ink test All Time with 9x more than Sandberg, and almost 2x more than your boy Bonds, Sandberg is DEFINITELY BETTER.

Rogers Hornsby is a Top 5 hitter of all time.

-Not one single person has said one season makes you a HOFer. We are giving career stats here!! Kent being a MVP is part of that resume. Also, Kent is good in a lot of categories!! Where are you pulling this shit out, man?

What's the hook on him getting in? The fact that he appeared in a lineup listed as a 2B? When you can't field the league average at your position, and you don't even hit .300, and you only ever lead the league in XBH and Sac Flies, you don't hit 3,000 hits or 500 HR, I don't think you belong in the HOF.

I can find you hitters who hit better than Kent and aren't in because they played another position. Fred McGriff: .284, 493 HR, 1550 RBI. Several other key stats. Quiet consistent producer. If he played a sub par second base, he'd be the greatest 2nd basemen of all time in your opinion? I'm sure he could've mustered a .950 FP. Why not? Let's just stop this. You've yet to prove why Kent should be noted as being a 2nd basemen. Yes he played games there. But that's like saying David Ortiz plays 1B. He doesn't really.

-Wonder why Kent won the MVP over Todd Helton? Giants finished in first, Rockies finished in 4th.

Further proof that the writers are idiots.

Helton had one of the best seasons by a guy not named Bonds or McGwire in the entire era and lost to Kent because the team around him sucked? Switch Kent and Helton, hell, even let Helton play 2nd, and I guarantee the Giants only get better while the Rockies get worse.

-Please find any proof or at least the tiniest shred of proof before making the incredibly dumb accusation based on nothing that Kent used steroids. This has to be the dumbest ****ing thing I have ever read from you. It has no backing, no proof, no nothing! Pathetic!

Prove that Sammy Sosa did.

Some things people just know. Then again, you say Bonds didn't do steroids, so I guess this defense doesn't apply to blind homers.

- Kent was never a liability at second base, he was league average. Comapring him to Matt Williams doesn;t do you any justice either. One, he played a different position and two, Williams was a good defender at third base.

League Average is mediocre. Less than league average is a liability. Kent was career less than league average. We're not picking his best 6 years for his HOF resume. It's about his career, and for his career he was a poor, poor defender.

-Pointing out that Kent was the first second baseman to win a MVP since Ryne Sandberg shows just how rare it is for a second baseman to win the award. Again, no one is saying one season merits a HOF vote. Too bad you missed the point. All caps is not needed as it makes you look dumber when I point these things out.

Once again, Kent didn't deserve that award anyway.

Once again, I don't care about how rare his MVP award is; the fact doesn't change that one MVP doesn't make you a HOFer, especially if the guy hit under .300 for his career and didn't make any milestones.

Mike Mussina comes to mind. You had a far different opinion of him.

-Yes, I have heard of Roberto Alomar. He too is a HOFer. Was there a point? Still doesn't change that Kent is one of the best offensive second baseman in the history of the game.

Point is you said Kent was the best 2nd baseman of his era. Alomar was his era and was substantially better except for in HR and RBI.

If Jeff Kent hit .300 for his career, or amassed an OPS that was better than Jay Buhner or the biggest snub of all time, Ron Santo, maybe he'd be in. But Santo had GG, a lot of HR, and a lot of RBI for some great teams and has never made it. If the writers are smart, Kent should appear like a worse version of Santo who held on longer.

[Dry1313]

Those are his numbers COMPARED TO EVERYONE ELSE. But when you compare them to all the other 2nd basemen, I don't even need to do the research to tell you they're the best

In other words, he's a shitty player, but since he played 2nd base, he's a HOFer.

I can't support that.

EDIT: Kent was not shitty. He was a very good player. Just not a Hall of Famer.

[love_that_reefer]

A few more points to put Dry in his place:

-I cannot believe you are still saying someone thinks Jeff Kent should get in because of one stat. Are you even really reading anything anyone writes?

-Are you just retarded or being difficult? Moving Larry Walker to second base would still prove nothing and doesn't make a lick of sense. How you come up with this shit is amazing! You have to compare people to their relative positions, especially when someone is going into the Hall at a certain position. You think they were comparing Yogi Berra to Babe Ruth? Carlton Fisk to Willie Mays? You think voters are comparing Lee Smith to Walter Johnson? You can't honestly compare a first baseman to a SS. Why? Because it doesn't prove anything!! Two totally different positions. Why not compare a pitcher's batting stats to a CFer's while you're at it? You have to compare Kent to his peers and when you do, you will see he was one of the best. Its not rocket science.

-Kent was an above average fielder so again, you're wrong. You're also wrong when you falsely say Kent was below average in RF. He wasn't. Check your "facts". He also had quick hands and a strong arm. Not a liability since most of his teams won.

-I already explained why I think Sandberg is better than Hornsby. Sandberg faced better competition and played in a much more talented era of baseball.

-I can find a bunch of hitters better than Kent, just not second baseman which is all that matters. Kent was league average defensively so quit trying to say he wasn't. You HAVE to compare players to others who played the same position or else there is no true comparison. You don;t see people trying to compare Ozzie Smith to Hank Aaron do you? Its the only way of judging a player, against their peers. Lets compare Albert Pujols to Omar Vizquel next! Once again, you do not know what the hell you are talking about.

-I need a reason to note that Jeff Kent was a second baseman?? How about 2034 games played at the position? Does that do it for you?

-Further proof why you are an idiot. Helton played on a 4th place team, Kent was on a first place team. Anyone who followed the Giants that year or baseball for that matter know Kent was the MVP over Bonds who finished second in voting. With or without Helton, the Rockies would still have finished 4th. Without Kent, the Giants don;t reach the playoffs. Kent played in a pitcher's park, Helton in a hitter's. Again, MVP should go to teams that win or at least come close to it. Helton was the better player but that is not what the award is about.

-Prove Sosa did? Why do I have to do that? We're talking about Kent. Where is there a shred of proof? Diverting the topic isn't going to make your case. Come with proof or shut the **** up!! I don;t remember seeing Kent's name in the Mitchell Report or failing to remember how to speak English while under oath either. Weird! I also remember Jeff Kent being one of the few voices saying baseball needed tougher testing.

-Some people just know who took steroids?? No they ****ing don't!! This is your proof that Kent took steroids?? You have got to be kidding me!! You think lawyers go into a murder case and tell the jury, "Some things people just know"? You would be laughed out of the courtromm just like you are getting laughed out of this forum!This has to be the weakest ****ing comment in the history of S3F's!! You will now be in my signature for all to see the ignorance of that statement!! I asked for a simple shred of evidence and you couldn't come up with one! Case ****ing Closed!

-Never said Bonds never did steroids, just said MLB couldn't PROVE it. Big difference there but not shocked you don;t see it.

-You don't care how rare it is for a second baseman to win MVP? Of course you don't! It doesn't help your pathetic reasoning. Its hard to accomplish for a second baseman!! You know something else? Only one second baseman in the top 50 in HRs amongst active players. Guess who it is! Again, great offensive second baseman are hard to find. And yes, Kent deserved that award! You were only 11 at the time Kent won the award so I don't really expect you to understand just how valuable Kent was that year. And again and maybe it will sink in, no one is saying Kent should get in because of one award!! How the **** do you keep coming up with this bullshit excuse? No one is even suggesting it!! Only you are keep bringing this up! Stop it!!

-I had an opinion on Mussina?

-Yeah, Kent under .300. He hit .290, he must really suck!

- Kent was slightly above league average at second base which means he was better than average. He wasn't a liability with the glove and his offense definitely made up for any shortcomings with the glove.

-I said Kent was ONE of the best second baseman of his era if you could read!! And guess what? He was!! Kent was the most productive second baseman of his time and that's not debatable.

[love_that_reefer]

This should shut Dry and any other doubter up but since Dry doesn;t think you have to compare people by the position they actually played, it won't!

When comparing Kent’s overall numbers to that of the greatest second basemen to ever play things begin to fall into place.

2B All Time Hits

1. Eddie Collins: 3,315
2. Nap Lajoie: 3,242
3. Craig Biggio: 3,060
4. Rogers Hornsby: 2,930
5. Frankie Frisch: 2,880
6. Charlie Gehringer: 2,839
7. Roberto Alomar: 2,724
8. Joe Morgan: 2,517
9. Jeff Kent: 2,461
10. Red Schoendist: 2,449
11. Ryne Sandberg: 2,386
12. Lou Whitaker: 2,369

2B All Time Doubles

1. Craig Biggio: 668
2. Nap Lajoie: 657
3. Charlie Gehringer: 574
4. Jeff Kent: 560
5. Rogers Hornsby: 542
6. Roberto Alomar: 504
7. Frankie Frisch: 466
8. Joe Morgan: 449
9. Ray Durham: 440
10. Eddie Collins: 438
11. Red Schoendist: 427
12. Lou Whitaker: 420
13. Ryne Sandberg: 403

2B All Time Runs Scored

1. Craig Biggio: 1,844
2. Eddie Collins: 1,821
3. Charlie Gehringer: 1,774
4. Joe Morgan: 1,650
5. Rogers Hornsby: 1,579
6. Frankie Frisch: 1,532
7. Roberto Alomar: 1,508
8. Nap Lajoie: 1,504
9. Lou Whitaker: 1,386
10. Jeff Kent: 1,320
11. Ryne Sandberg: 1,318

2B All Time Runs Batted In

1. Nap Lajoie: 1,599
2. Rogers Hornsby: 1,584
3. Jeff Kent: 1,518
4. Charlie Gehringer: 1,427
5. Eddie Collins: 1,300
6. Frankie Frisch: 1,244
7. Craig Biggio: 1,175
8. Joe Morgan: 1,133
9. Lou Whitaker: 1,084
10. Ryne Sandberg: 1,061
11. Bret Boone: 1,021

2B All Time Home Runs

1. Jeff Kent: 377
2. Rogers Hornsby: 301
3. Craig Biggio: 291
4. Ryne Sandberg: 282
5. Joe Morgan: 268
6. Bret Boone: 252
7. Lou Whitaker: 245
8. Bobby Grich: 224
9. Roberto Alomar: 210
10. Ray Durham: 192
11. Charlie Gehringer: 184

2B All Time OPS

1. Rogers Hornsby: 1.010
2. Charlie Gehringer: .884
3. Jackie Robinson: .882
4. Jeff Kent: .856
5. Eddie Collins: .853
6. Nap Lajoie: .846
7. Joe Morgan: .819
8. Roberto Alomar: .814
9. Jose Vidro: .804
10. Frankie Frisch: .800
11. Craig Biggio: .796
12. Ryne Sandberg: .795
13. Bobby Grich: .794

WOW! What a much better look at how Kent ranks with the all-time second basemen. Apparently, we're all just using one stat when looking at Kent like Dry suggests

[love_that_reefer]

I'm watching Kent's press conference and it is amazing to see one of the toughest guys in the game cry like a baby. Never thought I would see Kent cry. I couldn't imagine having your dream end like that.

[Dry1313]

A few more points to put Dry in his place:

In my place? You haven't said anything except that he hit his HRs, and provided other stats.

I provided a shit ass load of stats that show a few things:
1. He was not an elite player, not even Top 10 or Top 15 in his era
2. While his power numbers for 2B are some of the best of all time (which I NEVER ARGUED AGAINST), his defensive numbers are so poor he shouldn't be considered a 2B
3. He belongs on the same list as guys like Lou Whitaker. Great player, not a HOF.

-I cannot believe you are still saying someone thinks Jeff Kent should get in because of one stat. Are you even really reading anything anyone writes?

I posted all of his stats, and posted where he appeared on all time leaderboards. If you think I was EVER arguing that he was a one stat guy, I wasn't. He has one HOF stat, and none other. He doesn't deserve in. What of his other stats stand out? RBIs? He's very, very good...not HOF though.

-Are you just retarded or being difficult?

I won't tolerate your personal attacks because I don't agree with you. Grow up.

Moving Larry Walker to second base would still prove nothing and doesn't make a lick of sense. How you come up with this shit is amazing!

You miss the point. Again. Who's surprised.

You have to compare people to their relative positions, especially when someone is going into the Hall at a certain position.

Why? Hitters are compared to hitters. The whole point of my argument is that it's difficult for a 2B to attain power numbers because usually guys who play the position need to be fast to cover the ground at 2B. Since Kent didn't do that, he should be compared to hitters, not 2B, because he never fielded like one. The point of saying "slot Larry Walker in at 2B" was to point out the fact that if you take fielding out of the equation and factor in ONLY HITTING (which trust me, is actually doing Kent a favor) he's nowhere close to being a HOFer.

You think they were comparing Yogi Berra to Babe Ruth? Carlton Fisk to Willie Mays? You think voters are comparing Lee Smith to Walter Johnson? You can't honestly compare a first baseman to a SS. Why? Because it doesn't prove anything!! Two totally different positions.

Precisely. And, as I've shown, IF YOU'D READ MY POSTS, Kent didn't field at a league average clip for his career. His FP at 2B was .980 for his career. The league average was .982. His career FP for all positions was .978, while the league average was .981. His RF/G was .03 points higher than league average. He was, at best, average at the position.

Why not compare a pitcher's batting stats to a CFer's while you're at it? You have to compare Kent to his peers and when you do, you will see he was one of the best. Its not rocket science.

He was the #3 2B of his era. He wasn't a Top 10 2B of All Time.

Hitting wise, he wasn't Top 20 in his era. Fielding wise, he was not that good my friend. Yeah, he only made 196 E...way less than Eddie Collins...the difference is that Collins led the league (the whole AL) in FP 8x. That's right. So the "worst" fielding HOF 2B was substantially better than Kent.

-Kent was an above average fielder so again, you're wrong.

Based on FP, E by a 2B...or ****ing range factor (which he was league average).

You're wrong. I have what...2-3 stats (the biggest ones) on my side, you have a league average RF on your side.

He wasn't a good fielder.

You're also wrong when you falsely say Kent was below average in RF. He wasn't. Check your "facts."

Sorry. He was .03 pts above league average. His only good fielding stat.

He also had quick hands and a strong arm.

So did Lou Whitaker.

Not a liability since most of his teams won.

Right.

The fact that his team won bears no bearing on him. He was one of 9 guys on the field and in the lineup.

-I already explained why I think Sandberg is better than Hornsby. Sandberg faced better competition and played in a much more talented era of baseball.

Hit less career HR, had a lower AVG, trailed him in all major awards and stats.

So you base Sandberg being better on your crappy empirical impression. Excuse me if I try to make reasoned arguments using TANGIBLE stats and you continue to bring up bullshit.

-I can find a bunch of hitters better than Kent, just not second baseman which is all that matters.

He never fulfilled his defensive requirement.

Kent was league average defensively so quit trying to say he wasn't.

What don't you get about his FP being 3% LOWER than the league AVERAGE.

THAT MEANS INHERENTLY THAT HE WAS BELOW AVERAGE. IT ISN'T SEMANTICS, IT'S A FACT.

You HAVE to compare players to others who played the same position or else there is no true comparison.

No, you don't. The usual reason for power numbers to be outstanding for a 2B is because the position calls for good defense and speed; and to have raw power makes you special at that position. But when you sacrifice speed and defense for power, you get Jorge Cantu. Great, he hits HRs.

You don;t see people trying to compare Ozzie Smith to Hank Aaron do you?

Ozzie Smith has Gold Gloves that out do Aaron. Aaron had way more HRs. Both were the best players of their generation at what they did. (Aaron, HR, Smith, Fielding)

Kent wasn't the best HR hitter, he wasn't the best hitting 2B (Biggio and Alomar), wasn't even close in fielding.

Its the only way of judging a player, against their peers. Lets compare Albert Pujols to Omar Vizquel next!

Pujols is one of if not the best hitter of his era. Vizquel is one of if not the best fielders of his. Both are likely Hall bound because they were the BEST not third best, at what they did.

Also, there's a precedent for great fielders to get in...Brooks Robinson, Ozzie Smith, etc, etc.

There's not a precedent for HR hitters from this era to get in, which I have already shown.

Once again, you do not know what the hell you are talking about.

I put out stats. They do the talking.

-I need a reason to note that Jeff Kent was a second baseman?? How about 2034 games played at the position? Does that do it for you?

Nope.

Bill Dahlen played 2132 games at SS, but he wasn't a SS. 975 E say he wasn't.

-Further proof why you are an idiot. Helton played on a 4th place team, Kent was on a first place team.

I can name at least one player who won the MVP on a last place team. So clearly, that argument holds no bearing. It's a player award, not an award based on team performance.

Anyone who followed the Giants that year or baseball for that matter know Kent was the MVP over Bonds who finished second in voting.

And? That's what happened. Doesn't mean it was deserved. Just like Kent probably will get in, but it won't be deserved.

With or without Helton, the Rockies would still have finished 4th.

Put Helton on the Giants and Kent on the Rockies, and which team makes the playoffs? I think it has a lot to do with TEAM performance on whether a TEAM makes the playoffs.

Without Kent, the Giants don;t reach the playoffs. Kent played in a pitcher's park, Helton in a hitter's.

It's not like Helton hit .700 at Coors and .150 away from it. He hit .372 for an ENTIRE SEASON.

Kent's Adjusted OPS+ is good for his career. But not HOF worthy. So shut up about the park.

Again, MVP should go to teams that win or at least come close to it. Helton was the better player but that is not what the award is about.

Then I guess that ARod and his 57 HRs didn't deserve it either. Whatever.

-Prove Sosa did? Why do I have to do that?

Because it's ****ing obvious he did, but you can't prove it. So it makes the era tainted.

We're talking about Kent. Where is there a shred of proof? Diverting the topic isn't going to make your case. Come with proof or shut the **** up!!

I was just messing with you. I know how touchy Giants fans get about steroids.

I don;t remember seeing Kent's name in the Mitchell Report or failing to remember how to speak English while under oath either. Weird!

I remember seeing Bonds there...and seeing Calvin Murray, and several other Giants from that era there. Ever heard of guilty by association? That's Kent. That's Sosa. That's a ton of HR hitters from the mid-90's.

-Some people just know who took steroids?? No they ****ing don't!! This is your proof that Kent took steroids?? You have got to be kidding me!!

You're one to talk: "Jeff Kent was a good fielder because he had quick hands and turned the DP quickly." If you're allowed to use intangible arguments, why can't I?

You think lawyers go into a murder case and tell the jury, "Some things people just know"? You would be laughed out of the courtromm just like you are getting laughed out of this forum!This has to be the weakest ****ing comment in the history of S3F's!! You will now be in my signature for all to see the ignorance of that statement!! I asked for a simple shred of evidence and you couldn't come up with one! Case ****ing Closed!

You have no proof he was a good fielder. Somehow I think it's more embarrassing to have evidence easily accessible to you proving the contrary that you saw, noted, and still denied.

-Never said Bonds never did steroids, just said MLB couldn't PROVE it. Big difference there but not shocked you don;t see it.

Wow.

I don't even have to write anything here...you cited the fact that Kent wasn't in the Mitchell Report as a fact that he didn't do steroids...but yet you still deny that those included did steroids? What do you want...a bloody anus needle?

-You don't care how rare it is for a second baseman to win MVP? Of course you don't!

That's right.

Let's put Denny McLain in the HOF! He won an MVP! You know how rare it is for a pitcher to win an MVP! You know how rare it is for a pitcher to win 30 games in the modern era! MYAEH! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! Bond never did steroids! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR! RAR!

It doesn't help your pathetic reasoning. Its hard to accomplish for a second baseman!! You know something else? Only one second baseman in the top 50 in HRs amongst active players. Guess who it is!

That's nice. He's not active anymore. That's why we're having this argument.

My reasoning is pathetic? You base your argument on one HOF stat, a ton of mediocre ones, one undeserved MVP, and a subpar fielding record.

Again, great offensive second baseman are hard to find. And yes, Kent deserved that award! You were only 11 at the time Kent won the award so I don't really expect you to understand just how valuable Kent was that year.

I've been watching baseball and noting stats since I was 6. I used to rattle off the All Time hits leaders and name the amount of hits. I used to be able to name the leaders in HR, RBI and AVG at any time. And I didn't have the internet...I poured over leaders every day. So I do know he had a great season. Helton's was better.

And again and maybe it will sink in, no one is saying Kent should get in because of one award!! How the **** do you keep coming up with this bullshit excuse? No one is even suggesting it!! Only you are keep bringing this up! Stop it!!

Let's deconstruct your major points again.

1 MVP, HRs, RBIs...

1 undeserved award is 1/3rd of your argument.

-I had an opinion on Mussina?

Everyone seemed to think he didn't belong...maybe that was on TNFLF though.

You sure hated on Larry Walker though...he was WAY better than Kent.

-Yeah, Kent under .300. He hit .290, he must really suck!

Tied for 381st All Time, with Les Bell.

Sure seems HOF worthy to me

- Kent was slightly above league average at second base which means he was better than average. He wasn't a liability with the glove and his offense definitely made up for any shortcomings with the glove.

Do you not understand math?

-I said Kent was ONE of the best second baseman of his era if you could read!! And guess what? He was!! Kent was the most productive second baseman of his time and that's not debatable.

3rd of his era.

This should shut Dry and any other doubter up but since Dry doesn;t think you have to compare people by the position they actually played, it won't!

I can answer every stat with a bad Kent one.

When comparing Kent’s overall numbers to that of the greatest second basemen to ever play things begin to fall into place.

They fall both ways.

2B All Time Hits

1. Eddie Collins: 3,315
2. Nap Lajoie: 3,242
3. Craig Biggio: 3,060
4. Rogers Hornsby: 2,930
5. Frankie Frisch: 2,880
6. Charlie Gehringer: 2,839
7. Roberto Alomar: 2,724
8. Joe Morgan: 2,517
9. Jeff Kent: 2,461
10. Red Schoendist: 2,449
11. Ryne Sandberg: 2,386
12. Lou Whitaker: 2,369

All Time GIDP: Jeff Kent, #46, 224 GIDP

2B All Time Doubles

1. Craig Biggio: 668
2. Nap Lajoie: 657
3. Charlie Gehringer: 574
4. Jeff Kent: 560
5. Rogers Hornsby: 542
6. Roberto Alomar: 504
7. Frankie Frisch: 466
8. Joe Morgan: 449
9. Ray Durham: 440
10. Eddie Collins: 438
11. Red Schoendist: 427
12. Lou Whitaker: 420
13. Ryne Sandberg: 403

All Time Outs: Jeff Kent #89, 6,434

2B All Time Runs Scored

1. Craig Biggio: 1,844
2. Eddie Collins: 1,821
3. Charlie Gehringer: 1,774
4. Joe Morgan: 1,650
5. Rogers Hornsby: 1,579
6. Frankie Frisch: 1,532
7. Roberto Alomar: 1,508
8. Nap Lajoie: 1,504
9. Lou Whitaker: 1,386
10. Jeff Kent: 1,320
11. Ryne Sandberg: 1,318

Top 100 ISO Power: Jeff Kent isn't on the list

2B All Time Runs Batted In

1. Nap Lajoie: 1,599
2. Rogers Hornsby: 1,584
3. Jeff Kent: 1,518
4. Charlie Gehringer: 1,427
5. Eddie Collins: 1,300
6. Frankie Frisch: 1,244
7. Craig Biggio: 1,175
8. Joe Morgan: 1,133
9. Lou Whitaker: 1,084
10. Ryne Sandberg: 1,061
11. Bret Boone: 1,021

Career SB: 94

2B All Time Home Runs

1. Jeff Kent: 377
2. Rogers Hornsby: 301
3. Craig Biggio: 291
4. Ryne Sandberg: 282
5. Joe Morgan: 268
6. Bret Boone: 252
7. Lou Whitaker: 245
8. Bobby Grich: 224
9. Roberto Alomar: 210
10. Ray Durham: 192
11. Charlie Gehringer: 184

All Time Strikeouts, All Positions: Jeff Kent, #41 All Time.
Strikeouts All Time Leaders on Baseball Almanac

2B All Time OPS

1. Rogers Hornsby: 1.010
2. Charlie Gehringer: .884
3. Jackie Robinson: .882
4. Jeff Kent: .856
5. Eddie Collins: .853
6. Nap Lajoie: .846
7. Joe Morgan: .819
8. Roberto Alomar: .814
9. Jose Vidro: .804
10. Frankie Frisch: .800
11. Craig Biggio: .796
12. Ryne Sandberg: .795
13. Bobby Grich: .794

Adjusted OPS+ 123, 258th All Time

WOW! What a much better look at how Kent ranks with the all-time second basemen. Apparently, we're all just using one stat when looking at Kent like Dry suggests

Kent was overrated. Him getting in the HOF won't be deserved.

[NYgiantsfan5689]

Dry, you just don't get it, do you? Why do you keep putting stats up there that compare him to all players? IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. Compare him to other people at 2B. That's just how you do it.

[love_that_reefer]

Wow Dry. What a waste of time! I have already proven you wrong on so many points its scary. I'm surprised you can sit down after getting your ass kicked so badly.

I am EXTREMELY happy to know smart, intelligent baseball men think Kent is a no doubt HOFer! I am really, really comfortable being on the side of smart baseball men.. I could go through each post and tear you to shreds again but I don't have to. I have already done it. You are in the small minority that doesn't get it and frankly I don;t give a shit! Anyone who provides proof in the form of "Some things people just know" is ****ing priceless and isn't worth arguing with. Not much of an argument. More like a one sided ass beating by me!I love how you spent half your day writing that response which half of it is bullshit. Oooh what a waste!

There are 12 players in the Hall of Fame who have amassed 375 homers, 500 doubles and 1,500 RBIs. Andre Dawson, who logged 67 percent of the Hall of Fame vote this year, also is moving closer to Cooperstown.

Try and guess who the other player is?


EDIT: How the **** did you come up with this??

Wow.

I don't even have to write anything here...you cited the fact that Kent wasn't in the Mitchell Report as a fact that he didn't do steroids...but yet you still deny that those included did steroids? What do you want...a bloody anus needle?

I did? I remember saying MLB couldn't prove Bonds did roids! Nothing about my views on if Bonds took roids or not. I have said in the past that I thought Bonds did take roids. Amazing how you can't since you still insist on saying. I only provided one stat when I gave you ALL the important stats and how Kent stacked up against other second baseman of all-time.

And look at me tear into Larry Walker

I had to vote no but didn't want to. I like Walker as he one of the best all around hitters in the game when he played. He hit for average where ever he went but more importantly before he went to Colorado. I just don't think writers will vote him in. He was fun to watch because he had so much fun out there.

You are clueless.

[love_that_reefer]

For Dry and his ignorance on Jeff Kent and how people vote for HOF. Enjoy and try to learn:

Jerry Crasnick: Jeff Kent's numbers, demeanor both speak volumes - ESPN

Dugout Central » Kent Should Get the Call in 2014

SportingNews.com - Your expert source for MLB Baseball stats, scores, standings, blogs and fantasy news from MLB Baseball columnists

Rosenthal: Hall calling Kent? - FOX Sports Video on MSN

You can also watch Tim Kurkjian on ESPN all day. He even says Kent wasn't bad with the glove and did well. I'm sure he didn;t use a weak stat like fielding percentage as his only proof I'm sure there will hundreds more writers saying the same thing soon.

[missionhockey21]

Kent was honest and himself, very touching to see as he seemed a bit more sincere and genuine than some others who choke up when retiring.

[love_that_reefer]

Dry, you just don't get it, do you? Why do you keep putting stats up there that compare him to all players? IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. Compare him to other people at 2B. That's just how you do it.

Of course that's how you judge a player, by his counterparts. Dry thinks its OK to compare Ozzie Smith to Hank Aaron, Yogi Berra to Babe Ruth, SS's to 1B's and that Kent was a third baseman playing second for AN ENTIRE CAREER. He also thinks that after all the stats I gave that I only gave one. He also wants me to believe he was following the Giants in 2000 at the age of 11. He also thinks that Jeff Kent, the major voice against steroids and who was for more intensive testing, used steroids without an ounce of proof to back it up. Can't even find a rumor. Need I say more? Its cool NYG, at least we and every other intelligent baseball men know what we are talking about.

[Dry1313]

Dry, you just don't get it, do you? Why do you keep putting stats up there that compare him to all players? IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. Compare him to other people at 2B. That's just how you do it.

Really?

What was the reason that Jim Rice ultimately got in? He was one of the Top 5 players of his era for 8 seasons.

Don Mattingly was the top for 5 years also, he has no shot.

Many people have Kent's #s and aren't in. He isn't a Top 20 2B of All Time, he wasn't #1 or #2 in his era, and there are a ton of numbers where he ranks #1 WORST out of ALL 2B of ALL TIME.

Like Strikeouts. Like Outs. Like all the shit I posted that in your ambivalence you failed to notice.

If you don't want to objectively note how bad he was in so many categories, and just remember the good things, he'll get in.

Wow Dry. What a waste of time! I have already proven you wrong on so many points its scary. I'm surprised you can sit down after getting your ass kicked so badly.

How many people repped your argument?

Shut the **** up. You didn't make the best points concerning his career until page 3, you continued to argue against obvious and clear stats, and you're just a blind homer.

I am EXTREMELY happy to know smart, intelligent baseball men think Kent is a no doubt HOFer! I am really, really comfortable being on the side of smart baseball men.. I could go through each post and tear you to shreds again but I don't have to.

1. Smart baseball men didn't vote for Rickey Henderson. So that's a crappy point. I can find HOF voters who agree with me too.
2. Yes you do. I raised about 100 points, noted how while Kent leads 2B in one category all time that's favorable, he leads in several that are very lackluster.

I have already done it. You are in the small minority that doesn't get it and frankly I don;t give a shit! Anyone who provides proof in the form of "Some things people just know" is ****ing priceless and isn't worth arguing with. Not much of an argument. More like a one sided ass beating by me!I love how you spent half your day writing that response which half of it is bullshit. Oooh what a waste!

Just because you don't have the patience or intelligence to keep up with OBVIOUS STATISTICS THAT PROVE HE WAS A VERY VOLATILE PERFORMER WHO BENEFITTED FROM HIS ERA isn't my fault.

I did? I remember saying MLB couldn't prove Bonds did roids! Nothing about my views on if Bonds took roids or not. I have said in the past that I thought Bonds did take roids. Amazing how you can't since you still insist on saying. I only provided one stat when I gave you ALL the important stats and how Kent stacked up against other second baseman of all-time.

If you want absolute certainty, than you can only know that you yourself exist, as per Rene Descartes.

Grow up. Some things any idiot can infer, and some blind, ignorant homers don't want to believe the obvious truth about their heros.

You are clueless.

You're a first rate piece of shit.

Suck it.

For Dry and his ignorance on Jeff Kent and how people vote for HOF. Enjoy and try to learn:

Jerry Crasnick: Jeff Kent's numbers, demeanor both speak volumes - ESPN

Dugout Central » Kent Should Get the Call in 2014

SportingNews.com - Your expert source for MLB Baseball stats, scores, standings, blogs and fantasy news from MLB Baseball columnists

Rosenthal: Hall calling Kent? - FOX Sports Video on MSN

You can also watch Tim Kurkjian on ESPN all day. He even says Kent wasn't bad with the glove and did well. I'm sure he didn;t use a weak stat like fielding percentage as his only proof I'm sure there will hundreds more writers saying the same thing soon.

Weak stat?

Give me a better one. He was pretty bad errors wise too.

Kent was honest and himself, very touching to see as he seemed a bit more sincere and genuine than some others who choke up when retiring.

Still doesn't make him a HOFer...Dale Murphy was honest and sincere...he just didn't make the cut.

Of course that's how you judge a player, by his counterparts. Dry thinks its OK to compare Ozzie Smith to Hank Aaron, Yogi Berra to Babe Ruth, SS's to 1B's and that Kent was a third baseman playing second for AN ENTIRE CAREER. He also thinks that after all the stats I gave that I only gave one. He also wants me to believe he was following the Giants in 2000 at the age of 11. He also thinks that Jeff Kent, the major voice against steroids and who was for more intensive testing, used steroids without an ounce of proof to back it up. Can't even find a rumor. Need I say more? Its cool NYG, at least we and every other intelligent baseball men know what we are talking about.

No, you gave only 2-3 useful stats.

The fact that you insinuate that you're smarter than me because people agree with you on the internet (keep in mind, this is NYGF, he can't read a train schedule ) is pathetic.

Your argument is flawed and baseless, and your personal attacks are a way to cover up that a more intelligent opponent dominated you in a debate.

[NYgiantsfan5689]

I CAN READ A TRAIN SCHEDULE!!!! I just can't make one on time and that's not cool, pulling that shit out on me although i laughed a little, not gonna lie that was one of the scariest moments in my life