Holliday to the A's

[Providence A's]

Holliday isn't replaceable which is why they have to re-sign him in order for it to be a win. Beane can get it done and he should or else its a setback.

only if we give up a stud prospect. if not, then he can walk and it won't hurt as bad as you think. we'll get two picks, which will be in good spots. Boras won't let him sign until after the season so there's nothing we can do about that, but I'd rather let him walk than give him an extremely long and expensive deal. Time will tell.

and losing him without giving up top specs doesn't hurt the rebuild at all. they'll still be good after he leaves...if he leaves.

[love_that_reefer]

we shall see...the A's were better than their record. The Angels were worse than their record. Regardless, we could contend for the WC as well. All the other playoff teams had worse records than the Angels. The Angels could potentially lose 2 key players and played above their Pyt. record. It's closer than you think. I never said they'd win. But do honestly think this is the only move Beane will make? There are talks of us going after Furcal strongly...he would give us the lead-off hitter we need and a better SS than Crosby. The off-season is young my friend. Let's wait and see how it plays out.

The Angels have the means to replace Teixeira and Krod through trades or free agency. Plus they are already getting younger by cutting ties with Anderson. Sorry but the Pythagorean records don't mean dick when it all comes down to it. The Angels were head and shoulders above the A's last season. The A's were in the race last season till the All Star break when the wheels came off. I think the A's pitching will only get better but so will just about every team in the AL West. I don't think this will be the only move they make and you're right about the offseason being young. But If Beane doesn't buil around Holliday in the years to come, one year of Holliday isn't worth it. Don't care if Smith or Street are replaceable. I hope Beane does shell out the dough or Holliday because I think he can do a lot of damage for the A's for years to come.

[HollywoodLeo]

I think the Rays and White Sox both showed this year that being 24 games out of first doesn't mean you don't stand a chance at winning the next year.

[Providence A's]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on a few of the points. we'll just have to see what happens. I'm happy about acquiring Holliday regardless. And I do think he is exactly the type of hitter we need. I've always liked him. But I need to see what we gave up to evaluate it completely. If none of our top specs are involved, then this is an easy win to me regardless of whether or not we resign him due to the picks and the specs coming up.

I hope we do resign him, but I don't think it will hurt as much as one might think pending what we gave up. Either way, I'm excited to see!

[love_that_reefer]

If the prospects they draft with the 2 picks they get after he walks wind up being better than the prospects they traded for him would you not consider that a win?

It would mean, in the end, they gave 2 or 3 prospects to the Rockies in exchange for one year of Matt Holiday and 2 prospects better than those they gave up.

The A's would get a first round pick and a second round pick if Holliday walks. These are crap shoots. The A's would be spending $13.5 million for one year of Matt Holliday and praying that two draft picks will be better than what they gave up. Too many factors will determine if its a win or not. I say no extension, no win but time will tell. I am withholding anymore judgment until all the details are out.

[HollywoodLeo]

The A's would get a first round pick and a second round pick if Holliday walks. These are crap shoots. The A's would be spending $13.5 million for one year of Matt Holliday and praying that two draft picks will be better than what they gave up. Too many factors will determine if its a win or not. I say no extension, no win but time will tell. I am withholding anymore judgment until all the details are out.

I'm not calling it a win yet, but should my scenario pan out then it would be a win even if Holiday walks.

You're the one already dictating it to be a loss once Holiday walks.

I merely provided a scenario in which that wouldn't be the case.

[Providence A's]

I believe we'd get a 1st rounder and a sandwich pick, which occurs before the 2nd round. One report says CarGon, Street, and Smith. hmmmm, we'll see. CarGon has the potential to be a stud, but who knows.

[GiantsFanatic]

those 2 picks mean we didn't trade him for nothing if he walks. I never said the picks were better than Holliday.

So his production in 09 would mean nothing, gotch ya.

For the purposes of the debate, they don't have to be better than Holiday they have to be better than the specs Oakland trades for Holiday.

I was talking about face value for a trade, your not getting face value for Holliday, when you give up 3 players and get 2 pottential draft picks(who we dont know what they can do) vs his production on the field for 2009 if the A's fail to sign him to a long term deal, then they will be back to square one.

[love_that_reefer]

I think the Rays and White Sox both showed this year that being 24 games out of first doesn't mean you don't stand a chance at winning the next year.

Very true but don't see as much talent on the A's than that of the Rays or White Sox yet. Plus I can't see any scenario that the Angels fall like the Indians did unless the Angels team plane crashes. That's about it but you do have a point. With the Angels set to be a force yet again and the Rangers getting better, it will be tough for the A's.

[Providence A's]

So his production in 09 would mean nothing, gotch ya.

no...no one said that. his production in 2009 is likely to be better than what we give up. And the picks make sure we get something for him if we can't resign him. Give the spots of those 2 picks, they have the potential be better than what we gave up for Holliday. We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out.

[love_that_reefer]

I'm not calling it a win yet, but should my scenario pan out then it would be a win even if Holiday walks.

You're the one already dictating it to be a loss once Holiday walks.

I merely provided a scenario in which that wouldn't be the case.

Just going on my gut as this point. Terms haven't been released yet and I know the likelihood of these draft picks being better than who they gave up as less than 50/50. Time will tell. Shelling out $13.5 million on a hope that two draft picks will help isn't a win situation to me. Beane must find a face of the franchise with Chavez being a bust. I get your point though.

[HollywoodLeo]

I was talking about face value for a trade, your not getting face value for Holliday, when you give up 3 players and get 2 pottential draft picks(who we dont know what they can do) vs his production on the field for 2009 if the A's fail to sign him to a long term deal, then they will be back to square one.

But it wouldn't just be Holiday for the 2 picks.

They have Holiday for 2009 either way, the question becomes what will they have for 2010 and beyond?

In the scenario that they don't make this trade they have (fill in prospects traded here) and no Matt Holiday for 2009.

In the scenario they make this trade and Holiday walks, they have Matt Holiday in 2009 and whomever they draft with those 2 picks from 2010 and on.

In a sense, you're right. There's no guarantee that they get anyone worthwhile with those 2 picks. Of course, there's no guarantee the prospects they trade for Holiday amount to anything either, so it works both ways.

[love_that_reefer]

A source told Yahoo! Sports' Tim Brown that the Rockies would get Carlos Gonzalez, Huston Street and Greg Smith from the A's for Matt Holliday.
Then the Rockies did extremely well and the A's gave up too much for just one year of a player who has never played at a superstar level outside of Coors Field. Manny Corpas owners should be disappointed if Street is in the deal, as Street would likely close for the Rockies. Smith would jump right into the rotation. Gonzalez could be a candidate to play left field or even center for a year, but everything that happened in 2008 suggests that he needs more minor league time.

If true, I stand by my original statement. No extension, no win. The NL West just got better.

[HollywoodLeo]

Just going on my gut as this point. Terms haven't been released yet and I know the likelihood of these draft picks being better than who they gave up as less than 50/50. Time will tell. Shelling out $13.5 million on a hope that two draft picks will help isn't a win situation to me. Beane must find a face of the franchise with Chavez being a bust. I get your point though.

Fair enough.

We both agree that it's in their best interest to extend him, I was merely saying it's not guaranteed to be a loss should they fail to do so.

[GiantsFanatic]

no...no one said that. his production in 2009 is likely to be better than what we give up. And the picks make sure we get something for him if we can't resign him. Give the spots of those 2 picks, they have the potential be better than what we gave up for Holliday. We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out.

Your the one whos saying that "those 2 picks mean we didn't trade him for nothing if he walks" so your pretty much ignore his production that your going to get out of him on the field, and your only focusing on what your going get out of him if or when he walks.

But I'm pretty sure whatever happens next year, someone will be bumping this thread