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Watch Garza become great and Young be no better than a Jose Guillen.
Watch Garza become great and Young be no better than a Jose Guillen.
Marshall: MILSWANCAs?
Ted: Wait, I can get this. Mothers I'd like to sleep with and never call again.
Barney: Circle gets the square!
The 2074 MSL NL Gold Glove Recipient at Third Base.
No wonder the Devil Rays owner gave Andrew Friedman the formal title of executive vice president of baseball operations. Friedman would otherwise be known in informal terms as "shitty general manager".
I'm sorry but I now love this deal. The Rays have sucked forever for one reason, they have had zero pitching!!! The Rays have always had offense but never had pitching and now they finally figured it out. The Rays have a solid rotation to help compete in the AL East. Kazmir, Shields and Garza are a solid top three with Garza projecting to be the number two guy in 09. Plus they got a 21 yr old prospect in Morlan who had a great year in Single A. They filled their hole at SS and still have plenty of offense without Young. Plus Young has been a trouble maker with the Rays. Both teams got better for the long haul.Originally Posted by McKain
lol
Okay, first off, don't ever cite "a great year in single A" as a reason why a trade is good. Especially when he's a reliever. That's retarded.
Second off, there never was a hole at SS. Who do you think Brendan Harris was?
Third off, this deal looked a lot shittier when expensive, awful Juan Rincon was the third player in it - which is when I made my post.
It's still a loss for Tampa at this point on value alone, but it won't look nearly s bad if Morlan pans out.
Brendan Harris was a horrible defender, that's who he was. Bartlett is much better with the glove and hits the same as Harris. Rays wanted an upgrade at SS and got one. Harris is likely to play second base for the Twins where he is better suited.
Mentioning a great year at Single A where he had a 90/20 K/BB ratio for a 21 yr old is hardly retarded. He also played at AA so that was my fault for not seeing that earlier. Thinking that its retarded that getting a good pitching prospect is a good reason why a trade is good is itself retarded.
Only time will tell if its a loss. In view, it's a gain because they figured out they need pitching more than a trouble making headache who really wasn't that good in the OF.
Brendan Harris was not bad at short, he's just not the Gold Glove caliber defender Bartlett might be.
Morlan is a good prospect. It is a good inclusion in the deal for Tampa. Citing his year in A+ as a reason for why the deal is good for the Rays, however, is retarded. Delmon Young put up a .750 OPS and an .815 OPS in A+ ball, and something tells me neither of those years are what made people say "Wow, what a great prospect" - it was his skillset and the physical tools he had that made him a great prospect. I just don't see the point in going "well, look at that year he had pitching against a bunch of other raw, unimpressive 19 year old talent! Look how good he did!"
They needed pitching more than an outfielder but they traded the wrong outfielder to get it done. Why keep Jonny Gomes over Young? Why keep Baldelli over Young? Young's got attitude problems, but do you think Tampa gives a shit about that? Why's Elijah Dukes sitll on the team then? It doesn't make sense to downgrade from Young to Garza, from prospect to prospect, and make lateral moves with the two other players in the deal.
That is probably the easiest question ever on this forum. Gomes, Baldelli and Dukes combined don't have the trade value of one Delmon Young!!! Gomes is DH who can only hit homeruns, Baldelli can't stay healthy and might have another surgery plus he makes more than he should and Dukes has nothing going for him. Only the Nats think he is worth anything. What kind of pitching would these guys have brought?? Exactly!! The Rays still have the guys you mentioned to go along with Upton and Crawford. Sounds like they are in good shape to me. No lateral moves here. Getting much needed pitching is never a lateral move. Now if they traded Kazmir for Santana, that would be a lateral move.They needed pitching more than an outfielder but they traded the wrong outfielder to get it done. Why keep Jonny Gomes over Young? Why keep Baldelli over Young? Young's got attitude problems, but do you think Tampa gives a shit about that? Why's Elijah Dukes sitll on the team then? It doesn't make sense to downgrade from Young to Garza, from prospect to prospect, and make lateral moves with the two other players in the deal.
And for everyone's sake, bringing up his year in Single A was the show he was a top prospect. It's a way to show his development just like they did with Young. No one goes, "He sucked balls in Single A but would be a great MLBer". Get over it!
And by trading Delmon Young, they just got substantially weaker for the future on offense, almost entirely negating the gain of Garza.
By the time Garza and Shield develop to the point where Tampa is ready to contend with them, Carl Crawford will probably be gone. Jonny Gomes isn't any good anyway, Rocco Baldelli's hurt all the time, Elijah Dukes is going to be traded or in jail within six months.
You don't think dealing Upton could have pulled in a good pitching prospect to complement Kazmir/Shield? Hell, even Rocco Baldelli looked like he was going to pull in a good third starter last year before he got hurt in mid-May.
The fact is, they're going to have BJ Upton and nothing else in the outfield when Crawford's contract runs out, they have a prospect reliever who's 3 years away who may or may not become anything, and they just traded a hitter who most people think has all of the talent needed to become a Hall of Famer for someone who they wouldn't have even needed if they didn't ask the Braves for everything they had in the Baldelli talks.
They ****ed up and traded the wrong guy for something they just as easily could have gotten elsewhere, and I don't see it working out for them.
And people actually did go "He sucked in single A but will be a great MLB player" with Delmon Young.
Hall of Fame talk for Young is way too premature and more retarded than bring up a top relief prospect's year in Single A.
Baldelli was never going to bring in anything close to Garza last season.
To say they will have nothing else in the OF is not correct either as we don't know what they are going to do. Rays are great at drafting great position players. The Rays have good prospects at other positions. Who says they won't resign Crawford especially when they have pitching to actually contend? Rays are fine for the future.
They traded the right guy because no one else had the trade value of Young. The fact they have turned their attention to pitching shows this franchise is heading in the right direction.
No one ever said that about Young in A ball, ever!
I never said he was going to be in the Hall of Fame. I said he had the talent to make it there - something that is almost universally agreed upon.
Baldelli wasn't going to bring in someone who's a #3 starter and projects to improve, possibly to a #2? Really? Is that why the Braves were being asked to give up Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Yuniel Escobar, and Chuck James to get him?
They're not going to resign Crawford because they still aren't showing any desire to spend more than 30 million fielding a team. And since Crawford could probably net 10 million alone by the time 2010 hits, I don't see him staying.
No one else had the trade value of young because nobody's as good as Young, no shit. And that's exactly why he shouldn't have been traded! If they hadn't been telling the Braves to bend over and take it if they wanted Baldelli, he'd have gotten a similar return to what Delmon Young got.
And yes, people said that about Young. People say it about a lot of good prospects.
Hall of Fame talent after one year is pretty silly but i'll let you do it because I respect you.
That's why the Braves didn't trade for BaldelliThat makes my point!! Nobody was going to give anything for that tinman.
The Rays are turning things around which makes me think they are willing to make moves and possibly spend money. Crawford has been a staple in this franchise and if he keeps his numbers up and they are competing, he might want to stay. Or they can trade him in his final year and get good talent for him. No real problem here.
Then why did you ask why they didn't trade those other guys you mentioned if you knew the answer. Rays needed pitching more than offense and they got it and I'm guessing they aren't done. They will probably get another OFer and some more pitching. Rays have figured out you can't hit your way anywhere in the AL East.
People have been cumming all over themselves since Young was in high school. Only negative thing I've heard is when he hit the umpire and his immaturity. People never said he sucked in A ball because he didn't.
The Braves were apparently very very interested in Baldelli up until May... whatever. When he started getting... whatever ufcking new issue he had. Knee? Elbow? I don't know. Fact is, most reports had them very close to getting something done for a good package of prospects until Baldelli got poked in the soft spot.
Delmon did suck in A-ball pretty badly his first time out, when he hit like .285 (good) with like a .300 OBP (bad) and a .450 SLG (respectable) with some sickeningly bad 10:1 K:BB ratio. People said he sucked there.
As for the money/Crawford deal, Tampa's never shown much sign of changing that and even now, their idea of spending is to go after Troy Percival's decaying arm n hopes of getting a minor bullpen improvement. They just don't seem committed to it yet and until they are I don't think Crawford will be staying. And since they're Tampa Bay and usually ask for everything in a trade (see: Baldelli for Saltalamacchia, Escobar, James), it'll be tough to trade him away
I gotta go to class pretty soon here so I might not be here to continue discussing this if you want to go on. More ikely I'm just going to fall asleep on my couch and not wake up until 2, missing the class anyway, but still
Young's first year in A was a good one. He hit for great average and power. Don't know what you are talking about here.
Rays are about to resign Pena so they will spend money on him and probably another OFer. Crawford is a lot better than Baldelli so team will be more willing to give talent. Asking for Salty for Baldelli wasn't going to fly so it makes me think they wanted to keep Baldelli. For what reason, I don't know.
The Rays have plenty of OFers and have future studs coming up in Longoria and Brignac which will provide offense for the future.
Go to class tomorrow! You've had a rough morning arguing with me all morning. You deserve a nap
Let's not kid ourselves. The Devil Rays could've gotten Chuck James, at best, for Rocco Baldelli, and that's only if the Braves' John Schuerholz had soured on James. Schuerholz is like DiamondDave in that any player he wants to trade is usually someone you shouldn't want.
definitely favors the twins, but i think many of you are underestimating matt garza. Yea, he had a losing record last year, but he's 24 years old, he's a fairly hard throwing righty, and plenty of talent. It's definitely not a fair trade, but it's not quite Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi
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