Hey all you logo designers, I'm relatively new to this board (joined primarily for Crazy's league but have become fascinated with the baseball talk) and was curious as to what you all use for the logos. I have both Illustrator CS and Photoshop CS, where I am proficient at a few things from Illustrator at the moment, though would like to improve. Some of these logos impress me, especially those done by ghettochild and Element, and was curious as to know how exactly you begin designing these? They seem as if they are extremely complex, yet simplistic at the same time. If anyone has some pointers, or would be willing to show a .AI, .PDF, or .PSD file of something that I may be able to look at. Don't worry, I'm not looking to steal or plaigerize (sp? word choice?), I am just looking to improve in something that interests me. Thanks.