Reds rumors. short and sweet.

[Fishercat]

I will make one more note. I think a previous discussion on these forums showed that the average fan would take Andruw Jones over Adam Dunn. Now, going into this year, Manny Ramirez's career OPS was a good 175 points higher than Andruw Jones'. Manny only costs a Mike Cameron more than Andruw Jones does. Is it his contract that outlandish for his production?

[Sea Ray]

Add to that that Dunn is making 9 million and I didn't give the Reds Cameron, who is making 7 million a year. When it comes down to it, the difference would be 4 million dollars between Dunn and Manny minus Cameron.

You're arithmatic is all screwed up and the main problem is you've got multiyear contracts and you're only looking at one year (2006).

First of all Dunn is currently making $4mill. I't's possible he could go as high as $9mill next year but I doubt it. Cameron is only signed next year for $7mill then you can deny his option for 2007 and set him free. You can't do the same with Manny's. If you could he'd be a lot more tradeable. So you don't have Cameron's $7mill to offset Manny's contract in 2007, 2008 and however long Manny's contract is guaranteed for.

Plus the fact that Manny says he doesn't have any privacuy in Boston. How long do you think he'll be happy in NY?

The Mets do a lot of dumb things and trading for Manny would rank right up there. My bet is you're stuck with him

[Fishercat]

I don't want them to trade Manny.

He'd be happier in NY since that's where he grew up, and let's be fair, if Minaya can get a star Latin American player, he'll do it.

I was just going off of 2005 salaries, but you're still stuck with all those salaries for at least one year, and really, by then, at least the Mets lose some big contracts money wise.

It's guaranteed til 2008 IIRC.

Manny isn't as untradeable as he seems. If the reported deal is true where the Sox would get Cameron and Mets #1 prospect Lastings Milledge, it just shows that he isn't untradeable.

[Sea Ray]

I will make one more note. I think a previous discussion on these forums showed that the average fan would take Andruw Jones over Adam Dunn. Now, going into this year, Manny Ramirez's career OPS was a good 175 points higher than Andruw Jones'. Manny only costs a Mike Cameron more than Andruw Jones does. Is it his contract that outlandish for his production?

No question. It sure is and 29 GMs agree with me. Andruw Jones brings gold glove defense to a key position (CF) and that's worth something.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Of course you then had the report that the Sox would flip Milledge to the Reds as part of a deal involving Dunn, but that appears to not be happening, as O'Brien told Dunn that unless something changes dramatically before 4 PM(today) that he will be a Red at the end of tomorrow.

[Fishercat]

As he should be. As much as I would savor Dunn in Fenway (and if Theo could swing a Manny for Dunn/Cameron deal, even giving the Reds a couple of the Sox nice prospects, I'd be okay with it), I think DanO's stingyness has been good on the deadline, if not elsewhere.

[Sea Ray]

I don't want them to trade Manny.

He'd be happier in NY since that's where he grew up, and let's be fair, if Minaya can get a star Latin American player, he'll do it.

I was just going off of 2005 salaries, but you're still stuck with all those salaries for at least one year, and really, by then, at least the Mets lose some big contracts money wise.

It's guaranteed til 2008 IIRC.

Manny isn't as untradeable as he seems. If the reported deal is true where the Sox would get Cameron and Mets #1 prospect Lastings Milledge, it just shows that he isn't untradeable.

We'll see how it all comes down. I do think the Mets are one of the only teams in baseball that can consider trading for Manny yet a lot of teams can deal for Adam Dunn.

[Fishercat]

It's not worth the difference in offensive production though.

Every stat I've seen (and defensive statistics are about as accurate as getting ten beers in you, spinning around, then throwing a dart at the board) has shown Jones to decrease in his defensive ability to a simply above-average defensive CF from the best in the game. I can't imagine Andruw adds enough in defense and positional superiority to justify denying Manny's offense.

BTW, rumor time

Sunday, July 31, 1:30 a.m. ET: Sources tell us that the Reds may have been very precise with their language. They may not be dealing an outfielder, but they have been talking about dealing Jason LaRue to the Padres. Sending the catcher westward apparently was first discussed during the Joe Randa negotiations, but the two couldn't be completed as one transaction. The Padres looked around and came back to the Reds for the best available catcher.

[Fishercat]

Only a few teams can really afford Manny, you're right, Dunn regains a LOT of his value between him and Manny due to salary. Dunn and 11 million bucks could be more valuable then Manny depending on the GM. I'm just thinking that the teams willing to trade for Dunn would be big market where money matters less.

[CincyRedsFan30]

BTW, rumor time

Sunday, July 31, 1:30 a.m. ET: Sources tell us that the Reds may have been very precise with their language. They may not be dealing an outfielder, but they have been talking about dealing Jason LaRue to the Padres. Sending the catcher westward apparently was first discussed during the Joe Randa negotiations, but the two couldn't be completed as one transaction. The Padres looked around and came back to the Reds for the best available catcher.

Interesting, although it doesn't seem very likely since the Padres just made one trade earlier this evening for additional catching.

[AdamDunn#44]

i dont know. olivo is straight up stank. they may still go after larue.

[Sea Ray]

Only a few teams can really afford Manny, you're right, Dunn regains a LOT of his value between him and Manny due to salary. Dunn and 11 million bucks could be more valuable then Manny depending on the GM. I'm just thinking that the teams willing to trade for Dunn would be big market where money matters less.

Actually just about every team needing an OF has inquired about Dunn if you believe the rumors including KC.

[CincyRedsFan30]

i dont know. olivo is straight up stank. they may still go after larue.

What would you want in return if we do dump him? I would like another Pitcher and their good Catching prospect if possible.

[Fishercat]

KC is very young, has one major contract on the roster, and they are a small-middle market with very little to worry about.

I doubt the inquiry was that serious, kind of like the Blue Jays inquiring about Manny.

[AdamDunn#44]

What would you want in return if we do dump him? I would like another Pitcher and their good Catching prospect if possible.

the catcher named george koteres(sp?) and maybe sean thompson.