Narron: Dunn stopped batting 3rd because he thought it brought bad karma

[Sea Ray]

And your believe that a proven winner like Miley was so clueless is getting tiresome as well.

So facts are tiresome to you? I never used the word "clueless" but OK, I'll go along with that description in this discussion.

Do you have any evidence that OB influenced the manager in any way where Adam Dunn is concerned? Do you have any motive that OB might have in telling Miley not to bat Dunn third in any game?

If OB did tell Miley that he should never pencil Dunn at #3 in any lineup card and Miley gives in to such nonsense then who is to blame? Would you prefer a "clueless" manager or a "spineless" one? The choice is yours.

[redsrbetter]

Well I do not have a problem with Aurilia batting second right now, but we would still be better off with Randa there. But when Aurilia bats 2nd and starts at 2B over Freel, then I have a problem.

My thing on DanO is, we have to realize by now that his business is personal business at times. We have Romano as the obvious love child of his. That was shown last season with his constnt callup favor. and it is becoming more of the same this year. Romano is a decent player without a doubt, but has not been as good as Holbert, Denorfia, Bergolla, Kearns, EdE, or Olmedo this year. Can we say that DanO sees favor in this?

Or we have the unusual hatred of Kearns. We see a bright side with his stating that he wants to keep him around. (My personal belief that it is his way of raising the return.) But we know without a doubt that Kearns was ledt in AAA last season far too long. So, Kearns feels the same way this season, and this time DanO has a legitimate reason, but DanO screwed it all up with his overall disapproval in him. remember after Kearns shared with the media about his disliking to the situation? Kearns was benched in Louisville the next night.

We wanted Miley gone because he played the wrong players. (Aurilia over Lopez and Jiminez over Freel). Or at least he claims to be the one to do so. Despite Miley acknowledging to DanO that he was a clubhouse cancer and a lazy ballplayer, he still started him over the hard playing Freel? That was also despite Jiminez not playing anywhere close to what Freel was bringing. And we all know what happened with the Aurilia over Lopez thinking. Lopez destroyed everyone in ST, and he still was dismissed from the starting role. DanO got proven wrong, and he has to eat that crow.

Graves said exactly what we have been saying all along. So, why would he make up that stuff if it were not true? Sure he can't pitch anymore and he cannot figure that out. But can we use that to say that he was not correct in his claim on DanO's schemes? If I were pissed, I would do what I could to make him mad, so i would tell the truth about what he does wrong. Could this be the same reasons that Kearns and Dunn have such a hard time with the organization now?

I think this all adds up, and this is where my thoughts come from. It at least has a chance to be correct. I don't see how it cannot be viewed as such. But the ways you guys have put it, it could be looked at in that manner as well. But this is my take on it all.

[Sea Ray]

My thing on DanO is, we have to realize by now that his business is personal business at times. We have Romano as the obvious love child of his. That was shown last season with his constnt callup favor. and it is becoming more of the same this year. Romano is a decent player without a doubt, but has not been as good as Holbert, Denorfia, Bergolla, Kearns, EdE, or Olmedo this year. Can we say that DanO sees favor in this?


Graves said exactly what we have been saying all along. So, why would he make up that stuff if it were not true? Sure he can't pitch anymore and he cannot figure that out. But can we use that to say that he was not correct in his claim on DanO's schemes? If I were pissed, I would do what I could to make him mad, so i would tell the truth about what he does wrong. Could this be the same reasons that Kearns and Dunn have such a hard time with the organization now?

I think this all adds up, and this is where my thoughts come from. It at least has a chance to be correct. I don't see how it cannot be viewed as such. But the ways you guys have put it, it could be looked at in that manner as well. But this is my take on it all.

Anything's possible but the facts don't back up the notion that OB was controlling the batting "order". I haven't heard any whispers that OB cared where Adam Dunn batted.

And again even if he did strong arm the manager in some way, that doesn't absolve the manager from doing something stupid. If he gives into OB's silly notions and ideas then he needs to be fired. This is because you're doing what the GM tells you rather than what you think is best for your team. That is a sign of a sorry manager.

[CincyRedsFan30]

The difference between you and me is I deal in facts. The fact is Narron and Miley submitted lineup cards every night that did not have Dunn hitting 3rd.

What facts do you have that OB forced them to do it that way?

Are you talking about the same facts you ignore about Dunn, which is that he is one of the best few hitters in baseball?

I have some reasons to believe O'Brien has more influence on the team than you seem to think he does.

I'm thinking it will become more clear to you by next year.

[CincyRedsFan30]

And again even if he did strong arm the manager in some way, that doesn't absolve the manager from doing something stupid. If he gives into OB's silly notions and ideas then he needs to be fired. This is because you're doing what the GM tells you rather than what you think is best for your team. That is a sign of a sorry manager.

I disagree. The GM is the Manager's boss. They determine if they want to fire the Manager.

Unless it were something illegal, would you ignore what your boss told you to do?

[Sea Ray]

Are you talking about the same facts you ignore about Dunn, which is that he is one of the best few hitters in baseball?

I have some reasons to believe O'Brien has more influence on the team than you seem to think he does.

I'm thinking it will become more clear to you by next year.

You really look silly when you change the subject. We're talking about Miley here. If you have a bone to pick with me about Dunn as a hitter please finish this discussion first. I have no idea what you are talking about as I thought we were in agreement: Dunn should be hitting third. I haven't the slightest idea what you were referring to.

As to O'Brien's influence sure but what evidence do you have that he's dictated the batting order? Since I've asked this countless times and gotten no evidence from you in return I assume you have none.

[Sea Ray]

I disagree. The GM is the Manager's boss. They determine if they want to fire the Manager.

Unless it were something illegal, would you ignore what your boss told you to do?

If you disagree then you'd make a horrible manager too.

In the end Dave Miley will be judged by wins on the field. If he doesn't win enough games he'll be fired. Why would he give in to OB at the risk of losing games?

Again let's look at the facts. You say that Miley did do what OB asked yet the fact is he got fired anyway. So what did he gain by being a lamb in all of this? Kind of shoots your theory all to shreads.

As to the answer to your last question I'll PM you that answer as my job has nothing to do with Reds baseball.

[redsrbetter]

Sorry to butt in again, but I have to answer the Miley thing.

I think Miley did what OB asked. Thats just an opinion. And I think it was simply dirty work of DanO when he fired Miley. Don't get me wrong, I liked the firing no doubt. But DanO may have done it to cover up his mastakes. I am not sure about the batting order thing, but I would not doubt it. But with him influencing them in a possible threatening manner to play certain players, and then to fire the manager after those players were the main source of bad baseball, was completely dirty. But it only looks this way if yousee my first stated opinion. Again, none of it is for sure, but I feel I have seen too much to see otherwise.

[Sea Ray]

Sorry to butt in again, but I have to answer the Miley thing.

I think Miley did what OB asked. Thats just an opinion. And I think it was simply dirty work of DanO when he fired Miley. Don't get me wrong, I liked the firing no doubt. But DanO may have done it to cover up his mastakes. I am not sure about the batting order thing, but I would not doubt it. But with him influencing them in a possible threatening manner to play certain players, and then to fire the manager after those players were the main source of bad baseball, was completely dirty. But it only looks this way if yousee my first stated opinion. Again, none of it is for sure, but I feel I have seen too much to see otherwise.

No need to apologize. The more the merrier.

I hear you. I respect that this is your gut feeling. Personally I'd like to see OB go with Miley...out of town

[CincyRedsFan30]

So what did he gain by being a lamb in all of this? Kind of shoots your theory all to shreads.

I think Miley was indeed O'Brien's scapegoat, because he was worried he would be fired. I still think he attempted to control Miley. Now, whether Miley should have listened was debatble, but I personally feel he did try to control Miley and he(Miley) listened to him.