BJ Ryan

[Reds_fan_4_life]

Watching him last night makes you wonder how many times over the years has the Reds front office screwed up. They traded this guy to Baltimore in 99 for Juan Guzman(who isn't in the majors now)and only played for the Reds until the season of 99 was over.
The Reds thought they'd never hear about him again, and now he is a solid closer for O's, and is still there & been there ever since 99.
Had we of held onto him, he could of been our closer right now but instead we stuck with Danny Graves all these years. and now him being gone with no real closer? what were they really thinking back then?

[missionhockey21]

Hindsight is 20-20. At the time it was a trade that NEEDED to be done. Guzman came over and pitched 12 games for us with about a 3.03 ERA. I am sure if we went on to the WS and won, everyone would of praised this deal. It's true I would love to have Ryan still as well, but at the time, the trade worked out good for both teams. We wanted to get a push to try to make the playoffs and the O's wanted prospects.

[Fishercat]

Sometimes you have to take chances to win it all. Look at what Epstein did last year. He traded fan idol Nomar Garciaparra for two guys who were hitting below .250. One busted, but the other provided the defensive stability and bat needed to win the WS. IIRC, the Marlins traded a couple nice prospects for Uggy Urbina in 2003. If Nomar returns to superstar form (or Matt Murton, who was in the trade, becomes a very good OF) or Adrian Gonzalez becomes a beastly 1B, was it a bad trade for either team.

The Sox have been lambasted for a decade for trading future HoF and former superstar 1B Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen during their 1990 playoff run. Bagwell showed a lot of batting and on-base potential in his first few years, but at the time, he never showed HR power. Obviously, most good prospects grow into power and don't have it from drafting, but the Sox GM took a chance. I would have loved to have Bagwell and Vaughn at the corners in the mid-90's, but the GM took a chance and it blew up in his face.

How would the Reds know that Ryan would grow into a great closer? He didn't show anything special until 2003 (a good 5 years or so after trading) and had his first great season in 2004 when he reached his prime. If you guys got Guzman for 12 starts and a 3 ERA, then it was a decent trade at the time. If he busted, great, if not, dangit.

If I may, I refer back to the trade the Sox made with the Reds in 2003. The Sox traded Dumatrait for Williamson. If the Sox won the WS in 2003 (and I think if they used Williamson correctly, they would have been in the WS), great, even if Dumatrait became a #2 SP or stopper.

Propsects have two values. The one everyone likes to vaunt is keeping a player for 4-5 years and seeing if he develops into a superstar. On the other hand, prospects are valuable trading pieces. Best Case Scenario for me, out of the 6 first rounders (+sandwich), two will be on the Sox in 5 years, two will either be developing as HSers or possible bust, and two will be traded for a player that is needed.

[Fishercat]

I almost forgot one more Sox example

Mike Boddicker for Curt Schilling and Brady Anderson

The Sox made the ALCS in 1988 with help from Boddicker (4-3, 2.63 ERA) and then he was helpful in the rotation for two more years. The Sox traded a very solid future OF and an elite pitcher in certain years (and almost always very good) for him. What if Schilling shredded his rotator cuff and Brady busted. Would it still be a hideous trade? They took a chance and they didn't win it all. If a GM had future visions, then the game would be too easy.

On the other hand, there are simply just s****y trades. Steve Finley, Curt Schilling, and Pete Harnisch to the Astros for...Glenn Davis, who had one year with Baltimore where he created over 50 runs. Then Schilling moved from the Stros to the Phillies for Jason Grimsley, who never even pitched for the Stros. Ouch.

EDITED BY CRF: I don't know how other boards are handling it, but I edited the above usage of a cuss word. Mission can handle it differently if he wants to, but if I see it on this board, it will be edited. Thanks.

[griffeyfan3]

dang i never even knew we had ryan in the system.

EDITED for language