Dunn continues streak of walks

[Wally Mo Pena]

Just to follow up on what I was saying about dunn not being a sophisticated hitter because he doesn’t change his approach in an AB. Here are his numbers ahead of the count:
.333/.604/.758 with 8 HR

And his numbers behind in the count:
.125/.125/.250 with no HR

The situation is even more bleak with RISP:
Ahead .333/.697/.533
Behind .100/.100/.200

If dunn would stop swinging for the fences all the time, like when he has 2 strikes (he has no HR behind in the count anyway so it’s not like it’s doing him any good) and learn to foul pitches off with a short swing and go the opposite way with a short swing, he would get more hits, rbi’s, make less outs, and yes… even take more walks and see more pitches.

[AdamDunn#44]

It takes getting people on base to score runs. Dunns doing his part with that .408 OBP.

Hey but I guess its fun to bash Dunn. I can't wait til they trade him to a team that will appreciate his greatness. Someone like the Cards, Dodgers, A's, Red Sox.

[Sea Ray]

It takes getting people on base to score runs. Dunns doing his part with that .408 OBP.

Hey but I guess its fun to bash Dunn. I can't wait til they trade him to a team that will appreciate his greatness. Someone like the Cards, Dodgers, A's, Red Sox.

He may very well turn into a great player but his game still has shortcomings as of today.

He hasn't earned his plaque in Cooperstown yet.

[NFLman2033]

It takes getting people on base to score runs. Dunns doing his part with that .408 OBP.

Hey but I guess its fun to bash Dunn. I can't wait til they trade him to a team that will appreciate his greatness. Someone like the Cards, Dodgers, A's, Red Sox.

fine good riddance.

seriously when you are the power hitter in the line up your job is not to just get on base, your job is to get runners in... it is attitude like yours that has made the team a cellar dweller... just becuase he gets on and nobody gets him in doesn't mean that Dunn is blameless.. scoring Runs is more important than getting on base... I wonder if Freel and Lopez have better numbers than Dunn with RISP.. someone get me those numbers...

If Dunn is traded to one of those teams I hope we get some pitching because we don't need a joker who likes walking more then driving in runs

[AdamDunn#44]

LOL, yup I'm the reason the Reds are sucking.

You are stupid when it comes to understanding statistics and players like Dunn.

[CincyRedsFan30]

AD44, there's no sense in even trying. They refuse to even yield. Heck, I already made comparisons between Dunn/Pujols with RISP and Lopez too, but they apparently were so against what I was saying that they didn't take the time to read what was posted.

[CincyRedsFan30]

More evidence against those who claim Dunn doesn't hit well in clutch situations:

Lopez with RISP:

.154/.255/.282/.537

Dunn with RISP:

.211/.483/.474/.957

Close and Late(ESPN defines it as: results in the 7th inning or later with the batting team either ahead by one run, tied or with the potential tying run at least on deck. )

Lopez:

.200/.200/.350/.550

Dunn:

.259/.412/.630/1.042

Dunn not coming through in RBI situations is a pure myth. The fact is, he is placed 5th in the lineup, which isn't a good spot for him. After Randa, he doesn't have hitters that strike fear behind him. His OBP skills would be best utilized in the 2nd or 3rd spots in the lineup, with Freel/Lopez right ahead of him or Freel ahead of him and then someone else right behind him.

If he was batting 3rd like Pujols does for the Cards for example, he'd be placed in more RBI situations, because he wouldn't be walked as much as he is. (There is a reason he has 17 more BB on the year than Pujols). Pujols has hitters like Edmonds, Grudzielanek and others behind him in the order).

Oh, and if you thought Pujols hit well in the close and late situations, check this out:

.200/.333/.300/.633

All of Dunn's numbers have been better than Pujols' in those situations.

[CincyRedsFan30]

And for those who are going to try to argue that Pujols' numbers with RISP in general are better than Dunn's, notice that while Pujols has one more walk in those situations, he also has had 14 more AB than Dunn, and being that Dunn has walked more than one time per every four AB with RISP, he would have a few more BB in those situations than Pujols would with that number of AB.

Dunn has also had to deal with fewer RISP to begin with, since he doesn't have Eckstein/Walker in front of him to get on base ahead of him. Casey/Griffey both struggled in April and that made it much more likely he wouldn't have any runners on base ahead of him when he came to bat then.(.335 OBP for Griffey on the year(even worse earlier on) and .369 for Casey(worse earlier on).

Eckstein/Walker= .377/.347

Just to show that those two have been more consistent all year than Casey/Grifey, here are their April/May numbers:

Walker: .264/.361/.778(April)
.250/.353/.811 (May)

Eckstein: .260/.367/.678
.328/.386/.835(More BA driven that month)

The same thing for Casey/Griffey:

Casey: .276/.323/.679(April)
.361/.415/.920(May)

Griffey: .244/.315/.681
.283/.345/.901

Another thing to consider when it comes to Dunn having runners on for RBI situations is the fact that Casey has hit into 12 DP's(albeit most of them earlier in the year). Griffey has hit into 3 himself(for a total of 15 between the two of them)

Eckstein/Walker= 5/6= 11 (4 fewer DP's, 4 fewer RBI situations for Dunn vs. Pujols).

[AdamDunn#44]

CRF, I'm going to have to ask you to stop posting facts in this thread. This thread is for the Dunn haters to post opinions and non facts to make Dunn look bad.

[CincyRedsFan30]

bullshit. A walk is not as good as a hit because unless the bases are loaded you can't drive in a run with a walk. THINK ABOUT IT. It's simple logic. A walk is not as good as a hit, plain and simple. It can't drive in runs. Why do you think "pithcing around people" happens? If there is a guy on second and first is open and a good hitter is coming to the plate, they pitch around him because a walk is not as good as a hit in that situation. If dunn had actually gotten 45 singles instead of 45 walks he would have driven in a lot more runs and the reds would have won more games.

They don't "pitch around" the good hitter because the walk isn't as good as a hit...they do it so they can face a less talented hitter behind that hitter. It's a situational thing to set up a supposed favorable situation, not because allowing another player to get on base is a good thing. The good player gets the walk because they know they have a better chance of escaping the situation with the weaker hitter up next. Sometimes it doesn't work out though. Sometimes that walk can be MORE costly than pitching to the good hitter.

[CincyRedsFan30]

If you're Joe Morgan or Ryan Freel then yes a walk is as good as a hit but not if you're Adam Dunn. His role is to drive in runs and walks, unlike hits, rarely drive in runs, hence the difference.

I'm fine with him getting 100 walks a year and having as high an OBP as possible but I don't buy the line "a walk is as good as a hit". Hits drive in runs, walks pass that responsibility onto the next guy.

The problem is... not everything is on Dunn's shoulders. He gets very little to hit because of the fact that he has some weaker players coming up behind him in the lineup. I'd rather him BB than record an out with those weaker hitters coming up. If he actually would put 2nd or 3rd, he would see more pitches to hit, because he would have better players behind him. It all comes back to the very poor decision of him being placed 5th in the order.

[CincyRedsFan30]

It takes a long time to score runs if everyone is walking. Dunns job is to help the reds win, and winning takes runs. He's not doing his job.

It also wears the opposing pitchers out when everyone is walking. Of course I guess we don't want any of that happening.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Another thing Dunn's walks do is they lead to the lineup getting turned around more often. The more Outs he avoids, the more different players in the lineup will have AB throughout the game. It's not all a "score a run here or else" situation except in specific late-game/close situations, where, as I pointed out above, Dunn has done pretty well. It's about creating runs throughout a WHOLE game.

[Fishercat]

Just to follow up on what I was saying about dunn not being a sophisticated hitter because he doesn’t change his approach in an AB. Here are his numbers ahead of the count:
.333/.604/.758 with 8 HR

And his numbers behind in the count:
.125/.125/.250 with no HR

The situation is even more bleak with RISP:
Ahead .333/.697/.533
Behind .100/.100/.200

If dunn would stop swinging for the fences all the time, like when he has 2 strikes (he has no HR behind in the count anyway so it’s not like it’s doing him any good) and learn to foul pitches off with a short swing and go the opposite way with a short swing, he would get more hits, rbi’s, make less outs, and yes… even take more walks and see more pitches.

Those splits really shouldn't be that surprising. Check out this link about Bill Felber's "The Book on the Book" (BTW, if anyone who is interested in stats can get that in a library or at a nice discount, go for it. It isn't worth the 25 I paid, but it's quite the interesting book and the author does his research.

http://www.netshrine.com/felber.html

He is worse then the average hitter when he gets down 0-1, but every hitter is bad when the count goes to two strikes.

Oh, and if you guys want to trade Dunn, PLEASE trade him to the Sox. Temporarily he can replace Damon's OF position (place him in RF/LF/1B) and if/when Manny leaves, take over the monster space. I'm sure the Sox would give you guys a few nice prospects for a guy like Dunn.

BTW guys, it's not even the all-star break. You can't even look at complete stats and fairly judge a player's comparative talent. Is Chris Capuano better than Josh Beckett? Is Kenny Rogers the best pitcher in baseball? Is Ben Sheets worse than Runelvys Hernandez. Nevermind split stats. Looking at Dunn's career, he's not as bad in poor count situations as you guys make it seem. There's definitely a major difference, no denying that, but it isn't as stark.

As I said, if some of the Red fans here aren't appreciating a guy who has been your best player for a few years now, I'd be enthralled if you guys sent him over to the Sox to make the Reds the 5th of 6 NL Central teams to eventually lose a nice player to the Sox by choice or not. (FYI, Cubs: Clement, Cardinals: Renteria, Pirates: Arroyo, Astros: Miller).

[CincyRedsFan30]

CRF, I'm going to have to ask you to stop posting facts in this thread. This thread is for the Dunn haters to post opinions and non facts to make Dunn look bad.

I think you might be right. This thread is going to be 10 page long before long, and it will all about about how Dunn has done so little.

I'm sure many would be stunned by the fact(which I saw elsewhere) that the Reds scored the second most runs in team history for May(behind only the 1976 team).