Where to bat Bruce?

[missionhockey21]

The discussion over Patterson got me thinking, where should Bruce bat?

As we all know, his minor league stats aren't exactly shouting Mr. 2008 Plate Discipline as he doesn't walk that much and he strikes out quite a bit (he is however ripping the cover off the ball when it does hit the bat.) Most are calling for him to hit 6th/7th typically in many proposed lineups... that was my initial reaction. However, given Dusty usually favoring a 2B/CF batting leadoff, how would you feel about Bruce in that spot? His speed is decent, which would make it more tolerable to Dusty and if he bats in front of a Dunn or an Encarnacion and so on, he will get actual pitches to hit (at least in the early going) compared to hitting in front of David Ross/Paul Bako and the pitcher.

Of course this wouldn't be the long-term solution, but it might be the right way to give him a taste of MLB pitching without him suffering from chasing the improved breaking stuff pitchers are more apt to throw him if he bats 7th to avoid him. Hopefully he could get a better feel for MLB pitching and work on his pitch selection and just getting on base; as opposed to possibly feeling the pressure many fans have put on him as the second coming and swinging for the yard on pitches that aren't going anywhere. Once he has his feet grounded, then we could move him to a more conventional spot.

(Plus as a contact hitter, that doesn't hut him either in the leadoff.)

[CincyRedsFan30]

I'd either go with that leadoff idea or bat him cleanup. With his high SLG percentage, he'd seem to be an ideal fit, though we'd probably have to move Dunn/Edwin up to the two and three holes, respectively. How about this:

Keppinger SS
Dunn LF
Edwin 3B
Bruce CF
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Griffey RF
Bako/Ross C

[Doppelgänger]

I'd move Edwin, Votto, Bruce and Phillips around a bit

Phillips
Votto
Edwin
Bruce

I think hitting in the 4 spot is a little much to ask from him coming straight out of AAA. I'd start him lower and work his way up in the lineup, much like Votto.

[CincyRedsFan30]

I don't want Phillips in the three slot with his poor RHP splits. Lower.

And if Bruce is up, might as well put him where he will likely be in the future, especially since his SLG seems to be his "consistent" area.

[redsfan28]

Here's the problem, Bruce won't be up until they dump Junior. Bruce is a RF. He doesn't have the range/legs for CF. As much as we'd like to see Patterson gone, Freel will take his place in CF, not Bruce.

[missionhockey21]

I'd disagree. From most scouting assessments, he has the tools to be a competent CF for at least the early part of his career. He has the chance to be a star in RF defensively, but if the Reds kept Griffey and called Bruce up, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him out in center.

As for where to bat him, 4th would maybe work but I don't see Dusty doing that out of the gate with Bruce not yet proving himself and taking that spot away from guys who have hit at the MLB level. Based on what I know of Dusty, I see him most likely low in the order (which I don't think will work as he will be pitched around too much) with a small, small (can't emphasize that enough) chance he takes over leadoff, especially if he is replacing Patterson and not Griffey, as Dusty does favor the CF in leadoff.

[redsrbetter]

Very interesting thought here. As I was complaining about Dunn batting 7th, so to could I complain about Bruce. But would batting Bruce 7th help him with learning plate discipline a bit more? He won't see good pitches and will have to learn to lay off pitches out of the strikezone.

Batting him 7th clearly means that he is not being used in his best possible role, but it could be a worthy learning experience as well.

[missionhockey21]

I think he would benefit from that in a greater capacity if batting leadoff with competent hitters behind him. It would be stressed to him the importance of getting on-base, taking pitches to give the hitters behind him some idea of what to expect from the starter, etc. If he bats 7th, I think that could just rattle his confidence more than anything if he goes up there free swinging for the fences as the 7th batter, unless it's in a situation, has a much less defined role coming to the plate.

[Slyder]

I think he would benefit from that in a greater capacity if batting leadoff with competent hitters behind him. It would be stressed to him the importance of getting on-base, taking pitches to give the hitters behind him some idea of what to expect from the starter, etc. If he bats 7th, I think that could just rattle his confidence more than anything if he goes up there free swinging for the fences as the 7th batter, unless it's in a situation, has a much less defined role coming to the plate.

Batting 7th worked for Votto this year. I expect Bruce to struggle to start regardless at first. The test is how he responds. 6th or 7th is where I'd start him he shows he can hit MLB pitching then you adjust accordingly. Batting that low gives him a chance to see pitches and not be thrust into a position where he's expected to really rake and try to press to impress.

[redsrbetter]

Very interesting.

So where are we in this discussion? 1st, 4th, or 7th have been discussed and all of them have their pros and cons.

I find it pretty interesting that batting him 4th is out of the question. We won't discuss it in length because we know Dusty won't do it. Votto is our best candidate now and he hasn't even had a half of a season at the big league level yet. So Bruce could be just behind him and is targeted to be an even better hitter than Votto. I think the negative aspect to it would be that we all know he should struggle a bit out of the gate as he adjusts to big league pitching. I wouldn't put him there, just for confidence issues.

What I find most intriguing in this debate is the battle between 1st and 7th and how they would create a position of needed patience for him. My thought is that if you have a strong number 2 hitter like Keppinger or even better Dunn, he may not see many pitches out of the strikezone. He would definitely see pitches to hit. He may be told to practice patience, but that may become harder when he sees his pitch come through the zone and he watches it sail into the catcher's mit. I think he would learn better in the 7th spot because he is not being told to be patient, yet he has to force himself to lay off the stuff that is out of the zone.

Or what about batting him 5th or 6th with a strong bat protecting him?

Maybe look like this?

Freel CF
Dunn LF
EdE 3B
Votto 1B
Keppinger SS
Bruce RF
Phillips 2B
Bako C

[missionhockey21]

Batting 7th worked for Votto this year. I expect Bruce to struggle to start regardless at first. The test is how he responds. 6th or 7th is where I'd start him he shows he can hit MLB pitching then you adjust accordingly. Batting that low gives him a chance to see pitches and not be thrust into a position where he's expected to really rake and try to press to impress.

Votto is a different hitter though, you have to keep that in mind. Not only in the sense of plate discipline, style, but also in experience.

But I disagree, I don't think Bruce will see pitches hitting 7th. If David Ross and the pitcher follows, why would pitchers elect to give Bruce, commonly known to anyone who follows baseball as a stud with the bat, anything at all to hit? If anything I would argue that Bruce feels more pressure to produce, at least in terms of the big swing versus a role where he is protected by good hitters on both sides of him or in a spot where he is just expected to get on base and not touch four bases.

[missionhockey21]

The Official Site of The Cincinnati Reds: News: Baker turns to Bruce to fill leadoff role

Baker turns to Bruce to fill leadoff role
Cincinnati (31-35) vs. St. Louis (39-27), Wednesday, 7:10 p.m. ET
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

CINCINNATI -- Reds manager Dusty Baker freely admitted that rookie Jay Bruce wasn't his first choice to serve as his leadoff hitter on Tuesday vs. the Cardinals.

Then again, there were no other options.

"By the process of elimination," Baker said.

The Reds' previous leadoff hitter, Jerry Hairston, will be out at least two weeks with a fractured left thumb. Another leadoff guy, Ryan Freel, suffered a partial tear of his right hamstring last week. And Corey Patterson has struggled from the leadoff spot all season, and there's no room for him in the outfield with Bruce, Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr.

"Leadoff men are the hardest guys to find in sports -- baseball at least," Baker said. "Jerry was doing a hell of a job."

Bruce went 1-for-4 with a single in the No. 1 spot during the Reds' 7-2 loss vs. the Cardinals on Tuesday. He's a good bet to be there again on Wednesday.

"It's day-by-day until I get guys back," Baker said. "I talked to him about my experience with batting leadoff. Just hit the same. I know he's not your prototypical leadoff hitter, but neither is Hanley Ramirez, Bobby Bonds, Alfonso Soriano and the young man in Arizona, Chris Young."

Since he joined the Reds on May 27, Bruce is batting .390 with three home runs and 11 RBIs in 15 games

[redsrbetter]

Thank God a sound decision was made. Bruce may struggle in the leadoff spot. But we won't know for sure until it is tried. At least it is a far better option than sending Patterson out there.

[browntown653]

Thanks for enlightening us Dusty! I wasn't sure if Chris Young was "the young man in Arizona" or not. But thank god for saving us!

Anyway, Bruce should bat 1st, 3rd, and 6th at the same time because he is the hero of baseball.

[ljshorty89]

Maybe they should just clone him 8 times and make a team of all Jay Bruces