Attention All Miley Apologists

[NFLman2033]

GABP has been proven in the past as a neutral hitting park, so no, it isn't a "special" park in that regard.

I am dumbfounded by this remark... did you pull this out of your butt, because at no time have I ever heard that GABP was a "neutral hitting park"... it is considered to be a small park, with advantage for LH hitters for home runs.. dimension wise it is smaller than Cinergy, plus the ball travels real well later in the summer...

SR is right this team was never thought to have a great pitching.. it was suposed to be carried by their offense almost exclusively.. hell that has been the case since moving to GABP.. hell probably even before.. IF the offense is clicking on all cylinders this team coudl be an above .500 team, but when its not they are what you see.. Pitching if and when they get any is a bonus.. Wilson has pitched well the last 2 years and was expected to do the same.. Milton was the savior.. so that is a huge loss.. Ortiz was a gamble, he has had some success in the past, but has struggled bad as of late.. so his lack of production isn't suprising, but it wasn't a certain.. Harang has pitched above and beyond what was expected.. the bullpen hasn't done the job they were paid to do... but as much to blame the players you are to blame DanO and Miley..

DanO.. here is what I say.. first off hindsight is always going to be better then 20/20.. but his first move ever has proven to be terrible.. most of us knew that a guy like Reitsma would really have helped the team.. but he got us two starting pitcher prospects.. but looks like neither one will pan out.

Signing Milton was another bad deal.. but at the time it wasn't really that bad, we knew we over paid.. but if he was the best pitcher on the staff it would hae been worth ti.. and well we know now it truely isn't. Milton led the leage in HR's allowed last year.. and GABP isn't all that much bigger of a park then the one in Philly, so we pretty much should have expected him to give up the long ball.

We are finacially strapped due to signings of long term contracts, most of which are still Bowdens fault.

Linder gave DanO a budget.. he didn't spend it as wisely as we would have liked.. now we are seeing that on the field.

Miley wasn't given much to work with, BUT he was given some players who do their job, but it is his responsibilty to play them.. Freel and Lopez need to be playing everyday 2B and SS.. and batting 1 and 2 until they are ice cold, and to see anything different is Miley's fault..

We have 4 OF's who should be starting to see anyone other then those 4 in the OF(except due to injury shouldn't happen) when Pena went down and you play Aurilia at SS and Freel in the OF instead of Kearns.. not just a 1 game rest but for days in a row.. how the hell does that help the team.. Lopez beat Aurilia out in ST for the job.. he there has been no justification for Aurilia to have been given so many chances..

IMO I think WMP has been the the DL for so long becaes they don't want him healthy because it give Miley too many oportunities to make the wrong lineup out.

yes it is a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.. if you make a bunch of changes your a bob boone and people hate you.. if you don't change the lineup and keep the same guys out there who aren't hitting peopel will hate you... but when you bench a guy for 3 days who went 3 for 4... and you keep playing a guy who is hitting under .200 instead of a guy hitting .300... well that is something else entirely.

you people want to point out that Miley was successfull in the minors for years.. that means he should know how to be a manager who has nothing to help him look good... but being a minor league manager you know who the guys are that are suposed to get the good looks, and they guys who are on the team for roster filler... with the MLB squad there should be no roster filler.. if a guy isnt' doing his job then he should lose his job... guys like Aurilia should not be given more chances then guys like Kearns.. and he should know that.. you play the guy who is playing well.. and Miley hasn't shown me that he knows this.. he plays the guys who he wants to play and who he thinks should play.. and he has proven to me that he linup that he wants out there isn't the best lineup we have possible.

Pena is coming back and Miley is going to have far more difficult choices ahead of him.. and plent of opportunity to blow it.. I know he will blow it..

THis organization sucks.. top to bottom.. if Linder cared, and cared about winning nobody in this organization would be here... he woudl spend the money to buy to right people, and the right people to make the right moves. If i was a billionaire I would buy the team and I would hire a GM that actually knows how to make a team, and hire a Manager who has real experience managing real teams, not some Minor league yes man.

[CincyRedsFan30]

LaRue is WAY above average for what at his position?

I think Dunn is one of the best players in baseball but he's not performing like it. He's hitting .242 with a measly 28 RBIs. He has yet to knock in 100 runs. He's still a work in progress.

Miley's put some crazy lineups together this year and the fact the team is in complete disarray is beyond discussion. Those two facts are enough to warrant his firing. A manager can't let it all get out of hand like this.

Larue:

.242 .345 .359 .704

A .345 OBP is good for a Catcher. Look past the average here.

And Dunn's RBI are team dependent. His average also doesn't show his true performance:

.242/.408/.562/.970

His OBP is .408 and his OPS is .970. Both of those stats. matter more than his BA and are very high.

[CincyRedsFan30]

I am dumbfounded by this remark... did you pull this out of your butt, because at no time have I ever heard that GABP was a "neutral hitting park"... it is considered to be a small park, with advantage for LH hitters for home runs.. dimension wise it is smaller than Cinergy, plus the ball travels real well later in the summer...
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You've heard wrong then. ESPN examined this a couple of years ago and determined that GABP as a whole is a neutral park for hitting.

[NFLman2033]

I am dumbfounded by this remark... did you pull this out of your butt, because at no time have I ever heard that GABP was a "neutral hitting park"... it is considered to be a small park, with advantage for LH hitters for home runs.. dimension wise it is smaller than Cinergy, plus the ball travels real well later in the summer...
.................................................. ..............................................

You've heard wrong then. ESPN examined this a couple of years ago and determined that GABP as a whole is a neutral park for hitting.

that is news to me, becuase i have not only never heard that, I have always heard from everyone that it was a hitters park..

[missionhockey21]

THis organization sucks.. top to bottom.. if Linder cared, and cared about winning nobody in this organization would be here... he woudl spend the money to buy to right people, and the right people to make the right moves. If i was a billionaire I would buy the team and I would hire a GM that actually knows how to make a team, and hire a Manager who has real experience managing real teams, not some Minor league yes man.

I agree. The right people in charge is what was needed. I would of really rather had us spend a good chunk of that cash luring the top people in baseball to Cincinnati and letting them do their magic. Right now we are ran by a person who is not a professional. He does what Allen tell's him to do and he hires his buddies. Rarely do you hear of O'Brien hiring someone who he doesn't have a friendship with. We need the best people, not the best friends.

[missionhockey21]

GABP has really never been proven to be a hitter's park. The general thought (even before play began) was that it would be a neutral park that favored lefthanded hitters a bit. Check out this article though, it's interesting. It's not your traditional ballpark anaylsis but it's a cool read. I am not trying to prove anything with this, just wanted to share it since it fits into the discussion.

http://www.fantasyinfocentral.com/th..._ballparks.php

[CincyRedsFan30]

"For whatever reason, TGAB changed from a completely neutral ballpark in 2003 to one of the best pitcher's parks in baseball last season. We'll have to see if further evidence can support this as well".

[Wally Mo Pena]

that is news to me, becuase i have not only never heard that, I have always heard from everyone that it was a hitters park..

Baseball prospectus has GABP listed as a very odd pitcher's park actually. It gives up a lot of HR's but is a slight pitcher's park for runs and hits overall, which makes it an anomally. Their theory is that it is really a pitchers park slightly, but that in the few years the reds have played there, they have had hitters who hit a lot of HR's and pitchers who give up a lot of HR's, and that that has scewed the stats a little.

[AdamDunn#44]

The ball doesn't carry really well toward the gaps in the GAB especially to leftcenter. Plus the tall grass slows down groundballs which makes it a easier for pitchers.

Sea Ray-Dunn drove in 102 runs last year. RBI is a team depended stat and imo, its not smart to judge a hitter on RBI. Not Dunn's fault that he bats 5th and that the guys in front of him couldn't get on base in April.

[Sea Ray]

The ball doesn't carry really well toward the gaps in the GAB especially to leftcenter. Plus the tall grass slows down groundballs which makes it a easier for pitchers.

Sea Ray-Dunn drove in 102 runs last year. RBI is a team depended stat and imo, its not smart to judge a hitter on RBI. Not Dunn's fault that he bats 5th and that the guys in front of him couldn't get on base in April.

You are correct, Dunn had 102 RBIs last year. Thanks for correcting me on that.

I stand by my point that he is not a run producer and he hasn't been one this year for sure. As today's Enquirer stated he's 8 for 43 with less than two out and a runner at third with 19 strikeouts. A big guy like him should have more than 28 RBIs to go with his 14 HRs. That basically means he's a HR or nothing guy.

Miley putting him in the 5th hole is stupid and that's the genesis of this entire thread but Dunn has not had a good year by any means.

[Sea Ray]

GABP has really never been proven to be a hitter's park. The general thought (even before play began) was that it would be a neutral park that favored lefthanded hitters a bit. Check out this article though, it's interesting. It's not your traditional ballpark anaylsis but it's a cool read. I am not trying to prove anything with this, just wanted to share it since it fits into the discussion.

http://www.fantasyinfocentral.com/th..._ballparks.php

OK, so that study showed that GABP is the most pitcher friendly park in the bigs? I guess we know what we can do with that study...

[CincyRedsFan30]

Just because you don't like the results of a study doesn't mean you need to ridicule them.

[Sea Ray]

Just because you don't like the results of a study doesn't mean you need to ridicule them.

I gave my opinion of the study and actually did it in a very clean manner...

[CincyRedsFan30]

I can't say I agree. All you said was:

"OK, so that study showed that GABP is the most pitcher friendly park in the bigs? I guess we know what we can do with that study... "

You made that comment without anything to back a differing claim on the issue.

[Sea Ray]

I can't say I agree.

You made that comment without anything to back a differing claim on the issue.

So that makes it ridiculing?

All us Reds fans know GABP, we hear what opposing hitters say about it and we see the ball flying out of there and we hear hitters raving about the "batter's eye" as a backdrop. We heard how GABP would be horrible for Milton.

All this anecdotal evidence runs contrary to this study which proves how pitchers should love coming here.

I think all it really shows is how wel your team is taylored to your ballpark and it shows that last year at least the Reds were not well taylored to their park.

Another problem with a study like this is how it varies from year to year. Lets say that next year studies show that it is the 15th best pitchers park rather than #1. Well how can that be? The park didn't change. No fences were moved. My point is these rankings will change but the ballpark won't.

That's what you can do with that study.

If you want to defend that GABP is a great pitchers park then have at it but the study contradicted even your initial assumption that it was neutral.