Here's how I would make the roster for the rest of the year (and especially next...)

[Sea Ray]

Valentine has struggled for sure, but he still has the stuff. Now, that might never pan out, but he certainly still has a little potential.

He did but like so many other Reds pitchers he doesn't right now. He used to throw hard but I haven't seen him over 93mph this whole year and most of the time was 91-92. That's nothing special

[CincyRedsFan30]

He did but like so many other Reds pitchers he doesn't right now. He used to throw hard but I haven't seen him over 93mph this whole year and most of the time was 91-92. That's nothing special

I was going to add that he was used wrong by the team, but I agree with this. It seems to be a team-wide problem, with just a few exceptions. I think his role was a poor one in the bullpen, combined with whatever has happened to his velocity. It's really odd that most of our pitchers have this problem.

[Wally Mo Pena]

I've been thinking about the velocity thing a little bit, and here's the weird thing to me. I've seen, this year mind you, Milton hit 94, Valentine hit 95, Wilson hit 91, and Graves hit 93, those being the numbers that we've seen or heard of in the past. Now you might think that guys occasionally over-throw and jump up a little,and that they all really have decreased this season for some reason.

But when Paul Wilson was throwing 90-92 consistantly, did you ever see him hit 96? Or did milton accidently over-throw and hit 99 last year in Philly? I sure didn't see it if it happened.

So that makes me think that all of those pitchers actually can still throw that hard if they do something right. I'm no pitching coach, but i pitched for a while, and read enough to know that if you throw loose and easy you'll throw harder and with more accuracy. It's why they always tell pitchers not to aim the ball, or try to throw 150mph, all that does is slow the ball down and ruin control.

Sound familiar?

I think that gullet et al, and this philosophy (if you can call it that) of pitching to contact has killed them. All pitchers try to throw strikes, that's not some huge revalation. Gullet has gotten in their heads that they need to do something different than what pitchers normally try to do, and they are all struggling as they try to aim the ball. Instead of being loose and easy and trying to hit the target, they are trying to get it over and down in just the right way, and over thinking the whole thing. Down goes velocity, out goes control.

The more i think about it, i don't think that the pitch to contact idea should have ever been brought up with the pitchers. Ever. If anything it should have been brought up with the catchers, they're the one's that call the pitches. If they want to reduce walks and get quick outs, tell that to Larue, and make him set up in the right places. All a pitcher should do is get the sign, relax, and hit the target. They shouldn't be worried about what the hitter does at all. They are supposed to pretend that the batter isn't there if i remember my little league right.

I predict this staff will get better when Gullet leaves.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Nice thoughts there Wally. That's exactly what I've been thinking for a while. "Pitch to contact" is in the pitcher's heads, and thosethat don't seem to have it in their heads just look different on the mound. They look more relaxed, calm and seem to trust in their stuff.

[Sea Ray]

If I'm not mistaken this pitch to contact philosophy is O'Brien's right? Interesting to see if Gullett goes elsewhere if he'll mention pitch to contact again.

[missionhockey21]

Pitch to contact is O'Briens philosophy as far as I know. It could be a brainstorm lovechild of O'Brien and Gullet but when it was going good, O'Brien got all the credit for it IIRC.

[QuietAcre]

I don't know, I think that Dan O'Brien was more or less telling the pitchers that you have to be able to throw strikes, and that if throw strikes, the hitters will be able to make contact. Whether they do or not depends on the ability of the hitter, and the pitcher's ability to mix up pitching speed, movement and location.

[Saber]

Pitching to contact sounds nive and all, but strikeouts are preferable. Just ask Danny Kolb.

[Slyder]

Valentine has struggled for sure, but he still has the stuff. Now, that might never pan out, but he certainly still has a little potential.

Anyone have any updates on Valentine in the post Miley era?

[Sea Ray]

I don't know, I think that Dan O'Brien was more or less telling the pitchers that you have to be able to throw strikes, and that if throw strikes, the hitters will be able to make contact. Whether they do or not depends on the ability of the hitter, and the pitcher's ability to mix up pitching speed, movement and location.

Whatever they've done or told the pitchers it hasn't worked. This staff is bad by historic proportions