Kearns, Felo, and Wags traded to the Nats!!!

[Fishercat]

I never said anything about Denorfia not being good, he should be. I just said that about the pop that I doubt he provides.

[CincyRedsFan30]

I never said anything about Denorfia not being good, he should be. I just said that about the pop that I doubt he provides.

Yeah, but I'm betting on similar defensive numbers(more range IMO, he is more agile in the field than Kearns and is very good at getting to balls, IMO) and I think his OPS will rival Kearns' career mark of .823.

[CincyRedsFan30]

The problem lies in Clayton. There is no way he should be starting when the team has Phillips(who has great range...he made another great, rangy play tonight) who can play SS and Freel who can play 2B. Freel is a good defensive player and we all know about his OBP prowess. The top of the order could be good with Freel and either Phillips or Denorfia up there, IMO. Of course the team hates Freel for some reason. Don't ask me why.

[CincyRedsFan30]

I'm going to say that if Royce Clayton weren't starting at SS, I would actually not hate the trade. With him starting at SS, my opinion gets downgraded, but not as much as most on this board or other places.

I guess we'll have to see, but I think the production of Denorfia and the players we got in the future(other than Clayton they are all still young) will be good. We dealt from an area of depth(offense) for some younger pitching is how I look at it.

And I do think Clayton will likely end up only being a temporary stopgap at SS for this year until the team figures out whether they are going to move Phillips there next year and either look for another 2B in the offseason or allow Freel to play there like he should.

[redsrbetter]

After plenty of deliberation today, I have come up with my stance on this whole mess.

First off, I am highly dissapointed in Wayne Krivsky. He had done a really good job whenever we may have doubted his moves prior to today. For the most part, his moves payed off in a really big way. I went into the trade deadline period trusting that Krivsky would do what was needed without jeapordizing the future of this ball club.

We all know that it costs a lot to gain a missing piece that every other team in baseball is looking for. So the teams that are in excess of these parts or are in a firesale will be reeping the benefits from those in need.

In this case, the Reds were in desperate need of relief pitching. Jim Bowden knew that many teams would be asking for these same guys and he decided to make the price steep. No doubt that Bowden did a very good thing for his ballclub in this case. And Krivsky decided that he had to get it done in order to stand firm on his call to "make this team better every day."

I have been holding his moves accountable to that very saying that he loved to make when he was first signed. And I can't say that he failed in that matter. This team has (hopefully)fixed its weakness. This team also has a valid RF replacement for Kearns. So, on paper the team actually got better.

What about the offense? Sure, it dropped off quite a bit losing these two guys. But Krivsky had to deal from the teams strength to compensate for its weakness.

At this point you say that the team got better.

BUT, you also have to look at the bad part in the deal. Krivsky traded three players that could have demanded far more than what was garnered. Fixing a weakness or not, he did not get back the value of what he gave out. As far as the actual trade goes player for player, Krivsky got murdered. And I am talking Charles Manson's family hacking him to death then Jeffrey Dommer (sp?) eating his carcass.

This definitely was not a fan friendly move. But I feel like this team has gotten better in that we do not have to be scared that we are going to lose a game if we are not up by 5 runs in the 7th inning every night. We should have an adequate bullpen now and we have not hurt the rotation. The offense obviously still has some fire power and can score some runs. The defense may have gotten better for now as well. The team to me seems more balanced and can get the job done on all levels. The team as a whole is better even though we lost some key components.

I will not celebrate this as a good move by any means, but if these guys earn their keep, I will be satisfied.

[Porter]

This deal in M's Language would have been

Adam Jones
Jose Lopez
Rafael Soriano

for that package..

I would cuss out the whole city of Seattle if i saw that.

[Slyder]

Guys we dont like this trade its a given that a lot of people are going to be upset when guys like Fe Lopez and Kearns get traded for "less value". Maybe the scouts or FO knows something about the spects we got in return? But the players seem to like it and seemed helped by it as they went out and took care of business last night. We have suffered through too much through the tenures of Bowden and O'Brien to let this 1 deal crush our hopes and desires when many of Krivsky's moves have turned out alright to great thus far.

I don't remember if I was here when we went through the fire sale a couple years back and there were many (on the boards I saw) that were upset and angry about those deals. But come full circle out of that we got Aaron Harang, Phil Dumatrait (who sounded like Dumb Trade), Elizardo Ramirez.

This deal leaves me uneasy but so did a lot of the deals that helped support the foundation that was here. This is a sellers market, with so many teams looking for pitching teams like the Nationals can pretty much name their own price and since this FO and ownership group didn't have a chance to make an impact with FA so they thought now was the time to try and make the impact. Hit or Miss we as fans have gone through too much just to stop supporting them now.

[Fishercat]

I quite clearly remember (since it was with my team) that the guys were pretty big fans of the Dumatrait trade, mostly because you thought the PTBNL would be some guy like Jon Lester.

And I wouldn't take one game too seriously. Look how they started for Jerry Narron.

[CincyRedsFan30]

I've read some interesting insider stories on some "behind the scenes" issues with Kearns and some other issues with Lopez. Here goes, and this comes from someone who is highly connected in an opposing organization but used to be a media-credentialed member of the Reds organization:



"Since I have 4 hours before my flight leaves I figure I would post what I know about the Trade and fill in the blanks with what I am almost certain.

Kearns wore out his welcome. Likeable guy but not accountable. He has not, and probably will not, reach his big league potential. Sure O'Brien dogged him last year. With good reason. He missed extra hitting sessions (Philadelphia, NY), his shoulder rehab could have gone a lot better and his extra poundage was costing him. Not the way you want to please the Manager or FO.

Austin has a hitch in his swing that you could shove Adam Dunn through. Fortunately for him he has great hand speed and enough strength to make it work, most of the time. In baseball you hit the bottom half of the ball by staying strong THROUGH the ball. Austin hit the top half of the ball while dipping like a softballer. Austin was to 3B what Casey is to 2B. Fastball in or down = Ground ball to 3B or SS. Hard breaking ball away = Foul ball or pop up to 1B. Like I was saying, great fortune and hand speed allowed him to get ahead of enough balls to get some quality hits. What was impressive was the OPPO Home runs. To shear a fastball away out of the park they way he did requires some serious skill. Unfortunately that becomes a crutch for a player.

BEYOND the mechanical issues is the fact that he WOULD NOT correct any part of his swing. And I mean NEVER EVER. The swing he came to the bigs with was nearly flawless. (Shades of Molitor) His swing last year told the whole story. Put on some weight, lost some hand speed and there you have a .215-.220 swing. Now Chambliss will not have the stress of having to fight with him.

In retrospect Casey was the same way. "I'm hitting (*avg) so why would I work on this"? Heard it myself from them both in years passed. Great guys. But they just wanted to stay with what they had. Casey had a little more lead on that leash as he did a great job pounding breaking balls. Little easier since he as a LH hitter.

I could go on about Austin's lack of closing speed in the OF this season, how he can not get to balls to his right and the fact that only 1 out of 5 throws are on line or make it to the bag. But then I will get accused of picking on Austin when in fact I am just putting the facts out there. I know the real story, I have the facts and I'm not some Fantasy baseball guy that thinks the Mets will give us Pedro for Freel and Claussen.

I know for an absolute fact that he was running out of support in the Clubhouse. A lot of guys "LIKE" Austin but did not feel that he was committed to this game. I agree and made mention of this last season and was blasted on this board for telling the truth. I saw Austin in Louisville twice this off season and looked him in the eye to tell him what I thought and what I heard. No screaming, no carrying on. You have to remember I spent A LOT of time with these guys for almost 3 years. I told him he should be starting in RF in every AS game from 2006 on... he liked hearing that but did not want to follow the rest of the conversation about accountability. Austin is like a Ferrari Enzo that has water damage to the interior. Everybody walks up to it and goes "WOW, man that car is AWESOME", "I'd give my right arm for that car". True it is beautiful, it runs fast, smooth gets a lot of looks but you are only seeing it from the outside. Then you tell someone you want to trade it for two nice Cadillacs. "Oh Man, you're crazy!!! You're an idiot" Who's the idiot that wants to drive a Ferrari that stinks like swamp water? Jim Bowden?

The Braves were interested in Kearns. They took him off their board after doing some due diligence. What does that tell you?

Felipe Lopez. A real shame to see him go. This is a guy who works hard at the game. He takes this game seriously. Unfortunately he has a very difficult time becoming consistent. When the trade for Castro was made it was mainly doen to HELP Lopez. It did. I have several game notes and have asked for others on Lopez before and after the trade. I also had a few Tivo games that I watched just to see if the notes were dead on. They were. Prior to Castro coming over Lopez had SIGNIFICANT trouble with is footwork, glove postioning and throwing angle. Watch some old footage of him. Routine groundball comes right to him he would STOP, separate and then get his feet going. No can do. In order to make a quick throw he would get caught with his feet together and end up with a high throw OR a taling throw. Something Reds fans have seen far too much of. It's not like Bucky Dent was not working with him. Feverish would be the word that comes to mind. For whatever reason, they just could not get on the same page. No one to blame, it just happens sometimes. Unfortunately it happened to the SS. Castro comes aboard. Castro, Lopez and Dent spend HOURS working together and whhaaalah. Lopez is now settling through the ball, footwork is timed and MOST IMPORTANT he is throwing over the top and right on the bag. Not to say he didn't make an error or is never going to make one again. He's just more consistent and has a better base to work with. His biggest fielding problem still remains the ball over the mound coming across the middle. He'll get it.

Hitting wise... He has the stick. His stroke is there. If you gave Kearns Lopez's stroke, Kearns would be hitting .330. Lopez approach seems to be killing him. He consistently hit in the hole and the best pitches had already gone by. Even Gwynn and Boggs would have trouble hitting that way. It's ok to hit that good fastball early in the count.

I'm really proud of Krivsky. He knows EXACTLY what he is doing. I have read a lot of comments on this board that are mind numbing. Not that I do not understand that fans have a right to voice their opinions. I'm exercising mine now. What I do not get is this "promise of tomorrow" stuff. I was reading and article about Kearns today that really just skipped over all the facts. They showed numbers with him averaging out at 600 AB's? Are you kidding me? He hasn't even made it to 120 games OR 400 AB's in a season. That's not a fluke. That is a fact. His best season was his first season and he has not made ANY adjustments since! Austin Kearns is not a superstar! If he's your favorite player that's perfectly fine. Mine growing up was Tracy Jones (I know, I Know... I was 11 years old) If you pinned your dreams and hopes onto the back of his uniform, folks you pinned them onto the wrong guy. I drank some of the same Kool Aid until I got to know Austin. I got to see how he went about his business and perfected his craft. You need to find another object of affection.

BTW, playing the game the "Right Way" wins games Championships! Ask the 87-92 A's or the 70-78 Reds. ALL of those teams played Championship caliber baseball. Any ONE of those guys will tell you they themselves would be good individaully but possibly not GREAT unless they had the type of teammates they had around them. The A's more so than the Reds. The A's got more out of less talent where as the Reds meshed great talent to become a true Dynasty. The "right way" is hitting the ball the other way with a man on first, stealing bases, working counts, knowing EXACTLY what to do with the baseball in all situations, etc... When your team is losing you pick each other up and hold someone including yourself accountable. I could probably go on until midnight about playing baseball the right way. Fewer and fewer ballplayers do what is necessary to win. They leave it to chance. Krivsky isn't leaving this season to chance. He's doing things the right way.

Krivksy is one of the best evaluators in the game. Hands down. I wish I had a fifth of his talent. In Wayne you should trust."

[Fishercat]

The "right way" is hitting the ball the other way with a man on first, stealing bases, working counts, knowing EXACTLY what to do with the baseball in all situations, etc... When your team is losing you pick each other up and hold someone including yourself accountable. I could probably go on until midnight about playing baseball the right way. Fewer and fewer ballplayers do what is necessary to win. They leave it to chance. Krivsky isn't leaving this season to chance. He's doing things the right way.

How about looking at the most recent championship teams and how well they did the one measureable thing on the list, stealing bases.

2005 : Chicago White Sox: 137 SB (59 of which belong to Podsednik) : 3rd in the AL : 67.1%

2004: Boston Red Sox : 68 SB (19 of which belong to Damon): 11th in the AL : 69.4%

2003: Florida Marlins : 150 SB (65 of which belong to Pierre) : 1st in the NL : 67% (Note: This was the year that Torborg went crazy with the SB, allowing guys like Derrek Lee and Ivan Rodriguez to rack up steals at an incredible rate before being fired for a more conventional and WS-winning Jack McKeon).

2002: Anaheim Angels : 117 SB (23 of which belong to Erstad): 3rd in the AL : 69.6%

2001: Arizona Diamondbacks : 71 SB (28 of which belong to Womack): 11th in the NL : 65.1%

2000: New York Yankees : 99 SB (22 of which belong to Jeter): 6th in the AL : 67.3%

Basically, not a single team stole bases effectively, even to the point where stealing bases was a neutral action (considering a player needs approximately a 70% rate of success for SBs to be worth trying, since a failed CS means a negative reaction of an SB + One Base).

There's no proof that anything except extremely successful basestealing does anything good for the offense of a team (I want to say only the Red Sox led their league in Runs Scored).

I hate that tripe. BTW, no opinion on Kearns/Lopez, all I saw was that paragraph of idiocy

[homerun21]

I can agree that Austin Kearns was an underachiever here, can't say I know anything of his work ethic though. Lopez I agree is very talented, but also somewhat erratic. Neither player is superstar caliber and until I see otherwise I trust Krivsky on this move.

[redsfan28]

The report on Kearns was very troubling, but I figured as much. His swing has looked a little erratic since Ray King sat on his shoulder.

I doubt that Wagner will get it turned around, EVER.

The ONLY thing that I am concerned over is Adam Dunn's reaction. Dunn was pretty steamed and I don't know if its one of those things he'll get over. I COULD see him requesting a trade in the near future. Better hope Krivsky gets more for him than he did for FeLo/Ears/Wags.

[Saber]

I'm glad that the Reds acquired players that know how to play the game, as opposed to players with some sort of talent.