Reds are terrible in a number of ways

[QuietAcre]

So far the only two things that I have been impressed with is the offense's ability to get on base. And, the pinch-hitters. That's it. Ironically, these were the only two strengths last year of this club. This club has so many holes, it's funny. The holes start right at the top of the organization, with an owner who's head is filled with bananas, and a GM who sounds like he would fit in real well working in a Human Resource department in a large corporation. These are some areas that MUST be addressed if the Reds are to ever become a winning organization again. Keep in mind that I strongly feel that Dave Miley must be let go at season end, for the betterment of the club. It wouldn't hurt for Dan O'Brien to be given an ultimatum by the powers-to-be.

- lack of effort. How many times must we watch Reds hitters not run out grounders, and stand around waiting for the long ball instead of testing the defense's ability to throw out runners? How many times must we have to watch Junior admire his hits, instead of running the bases until the shot has been called or the baserunning coach tells him to stop? Last time I checked, it was ingrained in you in tee-ball that you don't watch the ball as you're running, and you don't stand around in the batter's box as you watch where the ball goes after you hit it.

- bad lineup cards. This falls squarely on the shoulders of Dave Miley. If Dave did the right thing by putting his best 9 players out there on the field AND putting them in the appropriate spot in the lineup, this team would likely be scoring a lot more than what it does. If Miley got fired for not following the orders from powers-to-be, then I'm sure it would become public news. Therefore, I am led to believe that Dave Miley really doesn't know his players well enough to know where they should be in the lineup. Even more sadly, I think that Dave Miley TOTALLY lacks a "winning personality" as manager. He seems perfectly content with baby-sitting, rather than running the guys out there than can win you games. He never explains the rationale of his moves.

- bad pitching philosophy. If the team's success really depends on the health of Ortiz, then this club is in a real deep sh*thole. All last year we heard about the "pitching to contact" philosophy the Reds would be implementing, but what we are really seeing is "walk a batter, THEN pitch to contact". Not good. Maybe the Reds just have plain horrible pitching. Not that we should be surprised.

- bad management and coaching. When your offense as a whole is starting off poorly each year, then it is a sure bet that you have either a manager with a bad hitting philosophy, a bad hitting coach, or both. When you continue to get NOTHING out of your pitching talent, either you're bringing up some really bad pitching talent or you don't know how to develop your pitching talent, or you don't know how tweak the mechanics of your pitching to produce positive, long-term results. Don Gullet, you listening?

It was great that the Reds won yesterday, but if all we're going to get to see now is the Reds scoring a ton of runs while their opponents score even more, then that is NO better than the offense puttering along while the pitching pitches above its level of talent.

[Slyder]

Seeing all the stuff that people are saying now, I wonder how many of these same people were calling Miley the greatest manager ever when the unlikely reds were in first place last year? This team I feel is much improved over last years team, but we are not there yet. We filled a Grand Canyon of a hole at the hot corner with Joe Randa (who if we are out of it will be a valuable bargaining chip come deadline time) playing until Encarcion is ready. We still need the shut down dominant ace at the top of this rotation, but I am sure as players start to see the franchise is looking to win again instead of the bottom line first second and third, will come. I would say Cincinnati is among the best cities to play in when it is given a good team (see 100,000+ for a three game series vs the Expos) and will want to play here.

We have guys at AAA we are just trying to bid time for as they get ready and not rush them. This team will get better as we start to get out from under guys like Graves' massive contract and can put that back into the team. I wouldnt give up on this team yet, I think there is still one more card to drop.

O'Brien took over a team that was in near shambles and has started paying attention to parts of it that help build sustained success (as proven by Billy Beane, although i hate Beane's style of ball) and thats the farm system and draft, we are already seeing results in the likes of Wagner. We have also been smart in most of the deals since the Reitsma deal, the guy at AAA that is kicking butt was part of one of the deals with the Philles last year.

This is not the time to give up on this team. We are not the team that 66-96 in 02, that was truely an embarrassment.

[QuietAcre]

This team is well on its way to being that 66 win team, though. If you can't beat the teams that are above you (or that are rising), you have only one direction to go: down. Until the team starts showing some heart (you know, running out grounders, running the bases until they are told to stop), then it will never have what it takes to make it over the top. A winning attitude isn't something that you get half-way throuh the season. You either possess it, or you don't. There have been many teams that went out "and got an ace pitcher", and that wound up looking like crap. Thanks for playing.

[BigRedMachine]

Two other key areas where I feel the team is lacking are:

Fielding. Yes fielding, meaning fly balls. I have watched about 14 games and many times the outfielders seem lost while tracking a flyball. Either stepping back and barely getting to it or getting it on the first bounce. Other times they just midjudge and it flies over their outstretched glove allowing extra bases. I know this occures periodically but to me it seems they are just not playing smartly.

Hitting, or should I say the lack of. I agree partially with this being Miley's doing with the "seat of the pants" lineups he comes up with every night. To go along with that where is the hitting coach? The problem Dunn had last season has grown to incorporate the entire team. Another 9 strikeouts tonight to add to the already league leading for a team. Chambliss needs to knock some heads around or time for him to move along. He seems to have worked it out with Dunn, how about letting the rest of the team in on it also?

The team has talent yes, but decisions poorly made and just some sorry playing on the field is going to kill any remote chances of getting to the playoffs.

[redsrbetter]

I say we are still in this no doubt. Things need to change, but we still have played well overall. A lot of us are feeling like we are lucky to be in this position so far. How are we winning these games with such bad management? We still have talent. Plenty of it too. But one thing after another goes wrong. We need the team to play as a team and have all facets of the game clicking. Not have a great start followed by a horrible bullpen finish. The offense has to be in a good lineup and they all have to play smart smallball along with the home runs. All these things are not only desired from a fan, but are needed for a team to win.

OFFENSE: We did well the second game of the series because the hitters came out swinging. We got Zambrano frustrated and we beat him. The next game Dempster was ready for us to try and do the same thing. So he threw his slider off the plate a little, and we chased. But, still the bats united and we adjusted it seemed. We were able to see plenty of hits last night and we still lost. But how?

PITCHING: Not a bad start from Harang. He gave up his usual 3 to 4 runs over nearly 6 innings. And if it were not for a talented hitter in Derek Lee, he would have given up 1 run. But our bullpen and management messed it up again. Valentine really cannot be blamed as much as our manager though. Then Belisle comes in and does well, but just got hammered by Patterson to lose the game. But that all could have been avoided with an intetional walk.

BTW, I was one of them that sang praises to Miley last year. I was one of them that loved the fact that he got signed again. I still love O'Brien's off season work. This all tells me that we have a manager that can manage. A General Manager that can get good signings. But after Miley's lineups and non call last night, and after O'Brien vying to send Stratton down and maybe having a part in the team not starting Felo. I have a problem.

But things can get worked out and this team is in the middle of the race. Don't let it slip too far and address your weaknesses. Then respond!

[CincyRedsFan30]

Harang doesn't deserve any credit for his performance yesterday.

As has often been the case with him, he doesn't seem to have an "out" pitch where he can get hitters out quickly and efficiently, which would keep his PC low.

He gave up 4 runs in 5 innings for an ERA in the stratosphere.

[redsrbetter]

Harang doesn't deserve any credit for his performance yesterday.

As has often been the case with him, he doesn't seem to have an "out" pitch where he can get hitters out quickly and efficiently, which would keep his PC low.

He gave up 4 runs in 5 innings for an ERA in the stratosphere.

Good call, I just kind of expect that sometimes. Maybe I did overthink his outing due to the rest of the mess.

[CincyRedsFan30]

If he could learn to put hitters away when he gets ahead 0-2, he wouldn't get his PC up and he could not only log more innings, but he probably would not give up as many HR(which often seem to be his problem, since he hasn't given up an insane number of overall hits).

[Slyder]

This team plays with no heart??? Thats the biggest bunch of croc I have heard since the last time I heard a politician give a speech. Are you sure your watching the right games cause these two plus a whole bunch of come from behind wins last year would point at the opposite, with basically the same team.

I guess they didnt get the memo they arent suppose to have any heart.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...=.jsp&c_id=cin

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...=.jsp&c_id=cin and i guess they gave up in this game too?

Lets take a look at the schedule weve had so far and who weve faced...

NY Mets (11-11) we faced two probable HOF in Pedro and Glavine and won both. Took their best shot in game 1 and still won.

@Houston Astros (8-12) Last time I checked Clemens, Backe, and Oswalt were all three great pitchers. The good sign was that we went almost pitch for pitch with them losing 4-3, 3-2, 5-2 with the fifth being the only mult run inning that game.

@ St. Louis (14-6) Last time I checked they were still the defending NL Champs. Marquis pitching well, and we crushed Mulder to split that series.

Houston Astros- We get Oswalt and Pettitte and still split those games. Both are still very good.

Chicago Cubs- We get two thirds of the three aces (Wood and Prior) in Chicago's deck and still win one of the games.

Pittsburgh we beat Oliver Perez, yes theres no excuse for the Wells loss but sometimes pitchers have good days (even Shawn Estes has them from time to time now ).

Florida (12-8) we get A.J. Burnett and Dontrell Wills and lose both games.

Chicago this time- Again we get two thirds of the three headed beast the cubs can throw out there (Prior and Zambrano).

How many teams can say they have faced a possible 14 different all star pitchers (16 games) in 21 games? With the caliber of pitchers I am not surprised some guys are struggling, facign that type of pitching everyday would even knock the best of teams into slumps. We have yet to play Milwaukee and will see a lot more of Pittsburgh with someone not named Perez on the mound along with other teams like Colorado. Now is not the time to give up on this team.

We have played 21 games, the season is 162 games long its too early to be selling the season off. Just look at the Marlins and where they were when they finally got all the pieces together the year they won the second WS for the franchise.

[QuietAcre]

No, Slyder, they don't play with heart. Junior has NEVER (at least not with the Reds) given 100% in the game. Don't believe all the media hype "Junior loves to play the game, he's THE KID!". The media will say anything, anytime, about anything that can make them money, anytime. When you have most of your guys running out grounders to first, and then you have Junior (oh, Freel has started acting like Junior lately, a blind man could see it) watching who fields the ball as he is jogging to first base, or admires his long hits to right field (as if he just hit a homerun) instead of doing what he is supposed to be doing (running the bases until told to stop), then you KNOW there is a problem. This team has dissention (read between the lines in interviews and you will see it), and I feel that the team is as frustrated with the way they're being managed, as they are with the way they're playing.

[CincyRedsFan30]

I don't think the team is frustrated with the way they are being managed. The players are known to like Miley a lot.

[Slyder]

This team has dissention (read between the lines in interviews and you will see it), and I feel that the team is as frustrated with the way they're being managed, as they are with the way they're playing.

Okay prove this, many of the players came up with Miley and like Miley, I want to see where you see dissension within the team.

[QuietAcre]

I don't think the team is frustrated with the way they are being managed. The players are known to like Miley a lot.

You may be over-generalizing here. Just because they "like" Miley, doesn't mean they are happy with the way they are being managed. Haven't you ever had a boss that you "liked", but you didn't agree with the things that he or she said? It might not have been your boss's doing, he or she was just passing the message along as instructed. The same thing could very well be happening here. Miley is very much a "yes, man!" type of manager, that is precisely why he was hired.

[CincyRedsFan30]

The players have stated they like playing for him.

[ghettochild]

most of them know miley from his time managing the minors, correct?