Scoring Runs vs. Patience

[CincyRedsFan30]

Good point redsr, and yeah it does.

Those who ignore what makes the offense good will attempt to refute it though.

[Geki Ace]

Not necesarily, at least with Kearnsy. He's not good when behind in the count. Felipe's been hitting so well lately that it doesn't matter, and Edwin has been off and on.

[redsrbetter]

seems to me like Kearns is always behind in the count. That is a good point if you go off of giving up early strikes, but he has benefited with his approach nonetheless.

With those guys that you pointed out, I cant think of anyone else who is patient at the plate right now. Hence the thought that the team may need to be more patient and take some tips from Felo, EdE, and Ears. The three of them have a common trend, they are all patient and are all seeing success.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Although it's a small sample size, it looks like Kearns' best numbers so far this year have been on 2-0 counts, followed by 3-1 counts. Next comes 0-0, followed by 3-2, then 3-0.

So four of his top five OPS numbers come on the third pitch or later.

If he doesn't see a first pitch fastball to his liking or something like that, it looks like waiting for a couple pitches is when he's at his best.

For the three-year period from 2003-2005, his OPS was 1.000 or more from most to least when the count coming into the pitch he hits was:

2-1
0-0
2-0

Again it looks like unless he gets the first pitch that is just toally one he knows he can't resist, he seems to do his best overall when waiting for a few pitches and not swinging at pitches that are out of the strikezone(getting ahead in counts).

This year for Edwin his top OPS in order go like this in terms of count(1.000 or greater):

2-0
0-1
3-1
3-2

For Lopez' three years splits, his ONLY OPS of 1.000 or great came with a count of:

3-2(drawing some walks here and enhancing that OPS as opposed to just "free-swinging" earlier on?)

And finally the three years splits for Dunn. When does Adam have his most success? Well, the 1.000 or greater numbers:

2-0
1-1
2-1
1-0
0-0

His best numbers come on the third or fourth pitch.

We have been swinging at a LOT of first and second pitches lately and that really isn't the best way for many of the Reds hitters to have their most consistent success. They might get a few hits that they otherwise wouldn't get if they were to wait in a particular situation, but as a whole it is definitely not benefitial for them to be so free-swinging.

[homerun21]

Although it's a small sample size, it looks like Kearns' best numbers so far this year have been on 2-0 counts, followed by 3-1 counts. Next comes 0-0, followed by 3-2, then 3-0.

So four of his top five OPS numbers come on the third pitch or later.

If he doesn't see a first pitch fastball to his liking or something like that, it looks like waiting for a couple pitches is when he's at his best.

For the three-year period from 2003-2005, his OPS was 1.000 or more from most to least when the count coming into the pitch he hits was:

2-1
0-0
2-0

Again it looks like unless he gets the first pitch that is just toally one he knows he can't resist, he seems to do his best overall when waiting for a few pitches and not swinging at pitches that are out of the strikezone(getting ahead in counts).

This year for Edwin his top OPS in order go like this in terms of count(1.000 or greater):

2-0
0-1
3-1
3-2

For Lopez' three years splits, his ONLY OPS of 1.000 or great came with a count of:

3-2(drawing some walks here and enhancing that OPS as opposed to just "free-swinging" earlier on?)

And finally the three years splits for Dunn. When does Adam have his most success? Well, the 1.000 or greater numbers:

2-0
1-1
2-1
1-0
0-0

His best numbers come on the third or fourth pitch.

We have been swinging at a LOT of first and second pitches lately and that really isn't the best way for many of the Reds hitters to have their most consistent success. They might get a few hits that they otherwise wouldn't get if they were to wait in a particular situation, but as a whole it is definitely not benefitial for them to be so free-swinging.

Um...duh? Of course hitters benefit when they are ahead in the count. But generally that is the fault of the opposing pitcher. Give the opposing pitchers some credit for getting ahead in the count, I highly doubt the Reds have changed their approach at the plate overnight..

[CincyRedsFan30]

Um...duh? Of course hitters benefit when they are ahead in the count. But generally that is the fault of the opposing pitcher. Give the opposing pitchers some credit for getting ahead in the count, I highly doubt the Reds have changed their approach at the plate overnight..

All pitchers throw some non-strikes.

Bad teams often swing at those non-strikes. The Reds often don't.

Lately they have been swinging at everything.

If you actually watch the games you can see they are swinging at everything and that it seems many of the players have taken Narron's "swing at pitches out of the strikezone" approach.

Until you can show me some facts/statistics that support your position, there is no other assumption but to assume your thinking is erroneous.

[redsfan28]

Bad teams often swing at those non-strikes. The Reds often don't.

Well, other than Adam Dunn. He swings at some garbage pitches, usually low ones.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Yeah, and I think some of that falls on Narron telling him to chase more pitches out of the zone.

[homerun21]

Until you can show me some facts/statistics that support your position, there is no other assumption but to assume your thinking is erroneous.

You haven't posted any facts yet, just statistics I already knew.

If you want to judge patience by walks the only really impatient night we had was on Saturday. We drew 4 walks Sunday, none on Saturday, and 8 on Friday. Yeah, real impatient. Lieber is simply a guy that attacks the strike zone and very rarely walks a batter. That's why we didn't draw a walk on Saturday..he also had excellent command. The Reds are also 3rd in the majors in walks by the way....

[CincyRedsFan30]

They're third in the majors in BB because of what they were doing early on.

And it's not just about walks. It's about waiting for the right pitches to hit.

Hopefully the team starts doing that tonight.

[homerun21]

They were 0-13 with RISP against the Phillies last weekend. They still drew 12 walks, patience is not the problem, timely hitting is.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Hitting with RISP is overrated.

It's about clutch hitting but it's not all about hitting with RISP.

It's about being patient and getting pitches to hit. I said it is about more than walks.

What the team hasn't done as much in many of these recent losses is hit HR. I think a primary reason behind that is the team hasn't been very patient and hasn't been waiting for their pitches to hit out.

They are doing too much "just making contact to try to get hits" in general.

[redsfan28]

Hitting with RISP is overrated.

It's about clutch hitting but it's not all about hitting with RISP.

That is an inherent contradiction. How can you be a clutch hitter and not hit well with RISP?

Hitting with RISP usually scores runs, which is what the problem is. We can't score runs.

Not going 0-13 with RISP would more than likely guarantee at least a couple of victories instead of a 3 game sweep.

[CincyRedsFan30]

No, actually it's not an inherent contradiction. Clutch hitting for the Reds is often hitting HR and those really don't have anything to do with RISP. Sure there might be runners in scoring position when some of the HR happen, but the placement of the runners has nothing to do with the recent inability to hit HR.

[missionhockey21]

You gotta admit though CRF, that Sunday's game would of saw about four homers for us if the weather was different (I think that's why that loss hurt so much for me.)