At what point...

[CincyRedsFan30]

Look at some of Edwin's defensive plays over the last few games. He'll learn. He has upside defensively.

[NFLman2033]

first of all, i hope who ever said to cut him was jokeing, at least it should have been, I mean sure his fielding is reminding me of Larson, but at least he has shown more at the plate, albeit not all the time, than Larson, and we kept him around a lot longer than this.

I do think he needs to work on his fielding, and maybe some time in Louisville would be best for him right now, not a whole season just a couple weeks, that way he doesn't kill us anymore with his fielding, and maybe put a charge in him a bit.

as far as the 1B position its clear Dunn doesn't want to move, its a matter of a guy becoming bigger than the team, which is why I felt we really moved the wrong guy, Dunn is a liability in Left, and won't play 1B, so he really needs to be a DH, so he should have been moved to the AL(and this was before the Casey deal) I know you guys disagree with me, but i have always felt he had the best market value out of all of our players, and an AL team would love to have him. Of course i had no idea he didn't want to play 1B, and i don't think the organization knew either, so really its his fault we are screwed. I guess it gives me another reason to not like the guy.

I know they are trying to figure out what to do when LaRue comes back, I do think they can keep 3 catchers, only because Valentin can play 1B, which they are going to need when they drop that waste of space Hatteberg(even though they are not smart enough to figure that one out)

really right now there are a lot of problems in the OF, and its the players who keep the team from being able to fix that, and it is Ken Griffey Jr not wanting to play anywhere other than CF and the before mentioned Dunn.

It just goes to show you that you hit a few long balls and you become a premadonna.

[missionhockey21]

NFLman, Dunn's defense liabilties are so over-matched by his offensive production. It's like meeting a girl so gorgeous you could never even imagine that level of beauty but she is lacking in the intellect department, sometimes something has to give and you have to determine if the trade-off is worth it. With Dunn, I believe it is. And I don't understand the "bigger than the team comment", did Dunn not try to play 1B this spring, did he not skip the WBC to do so? It was the Reds who felt that we would be a better defensive team by having the barely average Hatteberg at first, not Dunn (unless there is something I missed.)

And again, everyone overrates the Dunn trade market. Sure, a lot of teams would love to have him (I'd like a Ferrari but I don't think my $63 would cut it at the dealership) but no one is willing to give up a legit young ace for him. Dunn is a star and deserves a player back of equal quality, not some buffet of a couple decent-good guys, which is usually about the best rumors I see for him.

I do think the Reds were too quick to give up at Dunn at 1st considering he's an athletic guy and would have a better chance to become solid there than LF.

[Geki Ace]

I'm a lot more concerned about Edwin's offense right now. He's simply taking too many early pitches and getting behind in the count, and then he swings at bad ones because he's behind 0-1 or 1-2.

[redsfan28]

Him taking pitches is a result of DanO's ridiculous take the first pitch rule.

[Geki Ace]

Yeah, that was my initial thought on it, but I think it goes a little further than that at this point. Either way, it needs to be fixed.

[Wally Mo Pena]

EdE's hitting will continue to develop. Right now i'll take his .364 OBP. And I'll take hatteberg's .387 OBP all day long for the record.

[Geki Ace]

I'm very against Hatteberg getting any playing time at this point. He's been batting 6th when he plays, and he's got 3 RBIs the whole year, all on one swing on Opening Day. The walks just don't make up for his inability to contribute in any other way.

[Wally Mo Pena]

get em on get em over get em in, right? RBIs are too dependent on who's on base in front of hatteberg to judge him on that. Read any decnet analyst these days and you'll see the same thing: OPS should probably be more like OBPOBPS, because OBP is so important. He's scored 4 runsin limited playing time, and he doesn't make a lot of outs.

i'm fine with a platoon situation for him, but as long as he's getting on base 4/10 times up, i'm fine with him in the lineup.

[NFLman2033]

NFLman, Dunn's defense liabilties are so over-matched by his offensive production. It's like meeting a girl so gorgeous you could never even imagine that level of beauty but she is lacking in the intellect department, sometimes something has to give and you have to determine if the trade-off is worth it. With Dunn, I believe it is. And I don't understand the "bigger than the team comment", did Dunn not try to play 1B this spring, did he not skip the WBC to do so? It was the Reds who felt that we would be a better defensive team by having the barely average Hatteberg at first, not Dunn (unless there is something I missed.)

And again, everyone overrates the Dunn trade market. Sure, a lot of teams would love to have him (I'd like a Ferrari but I don't think my $63 would cut it at the dealership) but no one is willing to give up a legit young ace for him. Dunn is a star and deserves a player back of equal quality, not some buffet of a couple decent-good guys, which is usually about the best rumors I see for him.

I do think the Reds were too quick to give up at Dunn at 1st considering he's an athletic guy and would have a better chance to become solid there than LF.

ok #1 if we got Arroyo for Pena, you would think Dunn has a higher value, yes he is two years older, but more proven

#2, I think you overrate Dunn's offense a tad, he has really made a career of what i would called insignifcant home runs, mostly come late in the game when the other team is way ahead and there is no one on base, and he manages to hit them off #4 and #5 guys in the rotation, or Middle Relief, if somoene could lets see what his stats are against guys like Carpenter, Maddux, Prior, Wood, and Clemens, all of them are right handed, so i could have said Oliver Perez too, but that wouldn't be too fair.

Bottom line is if we can get a pitcher even better than Arroyo for him, I would pull the trigger on that deal in a heart beat

[CincyRedsFan30]

I'll take Hatteberg's OBP so far for sure, I just hope he starts to hit a little more, because I'm not sure I see how Walk rate staying that high throughout the year. I would also like to see his SLG percentage up some, since I think it's probably the most important part of the OPS statistic unless you are talking about someone like Freel who gets on a TON and can steal at the top of the order.

And anyone who doesn't realize Dunn was one of the top hitters in baseball last year is simply underrating his offensive talent. The bad part is certain other GMs in baseball don't seem to realize just how good he is, because all they look at his his BA and strikeouts. That is what could make his market less than ideal. Compound that problem with the issue of some of the teams who WOULDN'T understate his value having weak farm systems combined with no superior starting pitcher in their MLB rotation and you could find dealing him to be a fairly fruitless activity.

We would have to find the perfect match to deal him and I'm just not sure there would be one right now.

[Wally Mo Pena]

CRF: Actually you OBP is the more important part of OPS. You might want to check out the full article below, but here's the basic idea:

"But it has long been known that simply adding OBP and SLG is misleading because OBP is more important than SLG. The argument is probably well-known to most of you:

OBP is measured on a scale of 0.000 to 1.000, whereas SLG is measured on a scale of 0.000 to 4.000. So, the simplistic interpretation is that OBP is four times as important as SLG. But of course, there's more to it than that since a player can achieve a SLG of 1.000 in many ways. A lineup of Adam Dunn clones can hit a home run every fourth at-bat and score only a finite number of runs; a lineup of perfect Ichiros can slash perpetual singles and score an infinite number of runs."

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/sto...1/30/225611/12

subsequent research has shown that a better measure of offensive performance is 2.2OBP + Slg, to take care of the problem mentioned above.

[CincyRedsFan30]

I don't know what that article says, but I don't agree. At the most the two are even in terms of importance, but if you look closely, many of the better hitters are better in terms of SLG percentage. Kearns so far this year is a good example. A player can have a good BA and not need to worry as much about OBP. The SLG deals more with the HR, which we all know lead to the most Runs scored for the majority of teams.

[Wally Mo Pena]

I don't know what that article says, but i don't agree.

priceless.

[NFLman2033]

priceless.

yeah I know