Theo to Chicago Cubs

[cjkalt]

Dream on... Red Sox won't cave.. .they hold all the leverage...

[HollywoodLeo]

How do they hold all the leverage? Do they plan on keeping Theo?

[cjkalt]

Why not? There is no reason they can't? The Cubs nation will be furious if they didn't do it atthis point... the Cubs will flinch first in this game of chicken... ownership is smart... they are good business men and they won't take a discount

[Trendy Bastard]

After Henry already talked about Theo in the past tense? And whats-his-douchebag-face pretty much bashed Theo over the Crawford signing, and already announcing to employees that Cherrington will be taking over the GM position? I can't see them not allowing the promotion, that's an unwritten rule in business. Not only would that make the organization look like total assholes, but it would pretty much continue to sail the sinking ship.

I'm not saying they are going to cave, but if they honestly expect some great package of prospects, they are going to have to at some point.

I still think that a deal is pretty much done, they are just waiting until both LCSs are resolved.

Should this all fall through(which it won't), I don't expect the Cubs to worry one bit. They would probably bring in Josh Byrnes(whom is already rumored to be headed here as soon as the Epstein deal is finalized) from SD to GM for 2012, and then sign Epstein for the position he agreed to after his contract expires.

All in all, sure, the Sox hold some leverage, but it's not like the Cubs can't just walk away and hold off from Epstein until after 2012.

[realmofotalk]

Boston has what the Cubs want. That's where the leverage lies.

[cjkalt]

After Henry already talked about Theo in the past tense? And whats-his-douchebag-face pretty much bashed Theo over the Crawford signing, and already announcing to employees that Cherrington will be taking over the GM position? I can't see them not allowing the promotion, that's an unwritten rule in business. Not only would that make the organization look like total assholes, but it would pretty much continue to sail the sinking ship.

I'm not saying they are going to cave, but if they honestly expect some great package of prospects, they are going to have to at some point.

I still think that a deal is pretty much done, they are just waiting until both LCSs are resolved.

Should this all fall through(which it won't), I don't expect the Cubs to worry one bit. They would probably bring in Josh Byrnes(whom is already rumored to be headed here as soon as the Epstein deal is finalized) from SD to GM for 2012, and then sign Epstein for the position he agreed to after his contract expires.

All in all, sure, the Sox hold some leverage, but it's not like the Cubs can't just walk away and hold off from Epstein until after 2012.

1) Past Tense? Really, they want Theo still, Theo would like to take the job but if not the Sox will pay him a ton to stay... he'll stay for 6-7 mil per... money heals most wounds
2) He didn't trash Theo for the Crawford signing... read the whole quote... pretty blinded if u think that was trashing... the point was it wasn't a PR move and he lets baseball people do what they want
3) They said if Theo was traded then they'd promote him... they never said he's the GM... in fact Theo was working Thurs/Fri for the Red Sox in the offices... a lot of this is media oversaturation on hating Boston cause they haven't been able to do it for awhile...
4) The package will be 2-3 of the Cubs Top-Tier prospects... the Red Sox won't take less... I know you want to not lose stuff... but the Sox didn't leak the Youk story to only get lower specs in the deal for Theo... thats not part of their plan

Boston has what the Cubs want. That's where the leverage lies.

Yep... Cubs fans aren't smart enough to wait for 2012, or to hire a stop-gap... they think they can have Theo now and they don't care what the price is... not hiring him now is a PR disaster

[Trendy Bastard]

1) Past Tense? Really, they want Theo still, Theo would like to take the job but if not the Sox will pay him a ton to stay... he'll stay for 6-7 mil per... money heals most wounds
2) He didn't trash Theo for the Crawford signing... read the whole quote... pretty blinded if u think that was trashing... the point was it wasn't a PR move and he lets baseball people do what they want
3) They said if Theo was traded then they'd promote him... they never said he's the GM... in fact Theo was working Thurs/Fri for the Red Sox in the offices... a lot of this is media oversaturation on hating Boston cause they haven't been able to do it for awhile...
4) The package will be 2-3 of the Cubs Top-Tier prospects... the Red Sox won't take less... I know you want to not lose stuff... but the Sox didn't leak the Youk story to only get lower specs in the deal for Theo... thats not part of their plan

1) Not from the reports I have read. Theo loves Ricketts plans for the Cubs and wants to move there. And yes past tense.
2) You're right, bash was the wrong word. He was putting it all on Theo for the signing, which I find hard to believe. After not making the playoffs in 2010, there was a ton of pressure to put this team over the top, with Crawford.
3) He may have been in the office, but that's because he's obligated to be there until things are finalized.
4) Give me some of that shit you're smoking. 2-3 top tier prospects? Give me a fucking break. You aren't getting Brett Jackson. You aren't getting Trey McNutt. After those two, there aren't really any "top tier" prospects besides the ones drafted this past June. And none of those are going to the Red Sox either. If you expect anything more than a package of a Jay Jackson type/Rafael Dolis type + Wellington Castillo type, then you're flat out wrong.
5) The whole leaking the 'youk' story has nothing to do with this situation. When the Sox were trying to hire Beane, Youk was a part of the deal because Beane had 6 years on his contract with Oakland. Theo has 1 year left on his contract. Completely different situation.

Yep... Cubs fans aren't smart enough to wait for 2012, or to hire a stop-gap... they think they can have Theo now and they don't care what the price is... not hiring him now is a PR disaster

Cubs fans aren't smart enough? We have nothing to do with this. I assume you meant to put the Cubs owner, which by the way, is a very successful business man that has already made fantastic moves in improving the Cubs' future. Also, refer to my post before this one. There's another easy plan to get exactly what the Cubs want, without having to give up ANY compensation. The Cubs want Epstein now, but they do know his contract is up after the following season.

And how would it be a PR disaster for the Cubs? All Ricketts would have to do is say we gave our best to give up fair compensation, but the Red Sox were expecting the moon and then some, which would be disastrous for the Cubs long term future.

EDIT: I think I get what you were saying Cubs fans. Sure they will be upset, but ^^ would smooth it over.

[Providence A's]

A very good (and non-homer-ific) article that outlines the differences between when Theo took over the Red Sox and taking over the Cubs now.

Theo Epstein might be able to turn the Cubs around, but the job will be

When he was named the Red Sox’ GM, he had two 20-game winners (Derek Lowe and Pedro Martinez) returning from a 93-victory team that was building on five consecutive winning seasons.

The Cubs? They have a big-game pitcher in Matt Garza and an error-prone, strong-hitting shortstop in Starlin Castro.

The rest of it? As Garza said about anything and everything he experienced in his first season with the Cubs: ‘‘It is what it is.’’

[cjkalt]

Trendy, I just disagree... there is no pressure on Boston to make a move... they don't give in on trade talks... they pay the price they want, and they get what they want... Boston can walk away from this deal... yea there is some bad blood but how sad would the nation be if they had a 2 WS GM return... they'd offer him 6-7 mil to stay and he'd talk about how he had a change of heart and he wanted to stay home... Henry said he wanted Epstein to stay... just like the Beane deal its not over until the ink is dry...

Boston is in a win-win here... the Cubs will have to pay the piper otherwise they won't get him, and the vast majority of Cubs nation would be furious to think 2-3 PROSPECTS cost them Theo when they aren't winning anytime soon

[Trendy Bastard]

Well, I think you are going to be very disappointed then. When the deal is finalized, the Red Sox will land players like Jay Jackson and (what I'm hearing now) Ryan Flaherty. A AA pitcher with *some* upside, and a AAA position player that could make the Majors in 2012, but isn't anything what you call 'top tier'.

By the way, there hasn't been any indication that either team is going to walk away. All of the big name writers are saying that a deal will most likely be done on Tuesday.

[love_that_reefer]

Yeah I don't see how the Red Sox have any leverage at this point.

[Trendy Bastard]

Sources are saying the Red Sox are focusing on McNutt.

If we give him up we better get to hand pick any employee we want. Even after that I'd still be unhappy.

Time to stop the nonsense and move on if needed.

[Saber]

I think Trendy is right. The compensation will probably be something useful, but Starlin Castro ain't going anywhere. The Red Sox can certainly hold onto Epstein, but that will cost them acrimony and 8 million, with no players in return.

They have leverage, but it's not like they can get the world here, unless the Cubs get stupid.

[love_that_reefer]

Red Sox asked for Garza initially

[Trendy Bastard]

Red Sox asked for Garza initially

My exact reaction when I read that report