Paps Being Wishy-Washy, rival closers have another competition

[bwitty24]

Although, I would not consider the blown save Papelbon had last night very legit. Would you agree?

[Dry1313]

Mo deserves it, but Papelbon is right, had Francona put him in, it was his right.

Not like it matters, because Pap sucked dick

[Lance324]

One of the biggest criticisms I have of Papelbon as a pitcher is that he works in the zone a little too much. Too many times I've seen him get ahead 0-2 and throw a fastball right down the center of the plate. Most of the time he gets away with it, but if he'd work the corners and his off speed pitches more when ahead in the count. I believe he'd be much better than he is.

[ljshorty89]

Over the span of his career, Wagner is indeed elite. He has the third most saves of any active player, and was one of the most dominant relief pitchers for the majority of his career.

Blown saves are biased because if you blow a game in which you come in with a one run lead, a man on third, and no out, and you give up a sac fly(even though it's not your runner), you get the blown save.

I agree Mo deserved the shot, but I also believe that a lot of people are giving Paps a bad rap for something that wasn't meant the way you guys are interpreting it.

[cjkalt]

Mo deserves it, but Papelbon is right, had Francona put him in, it was his right.

Not like it matters, because Pap sucked dick

So he's terrible cause a broken bat falls in, navarro has the worst arm ever and he gives up a sac fly...whereas mo, was in constant danger and if anyone but the worst all-star ever, uggla is up in the 10th, Mo has blown it for the AL... which would have continued his late choking of late (see WS vs Florida, ALCS vs Boston)

[bwitty24]

I was hoping CJ's comment would be halfway non homerific. However, after careful consideration this was not the case. I agree with the first part. But the second part is bogus.

[ljshorty89]

Agreed, witty. By the way, you had a damn good start in the Interactive MLB 2K8 thingy

[bwitty24]

Sweet

[Lance324]

Why are we talking about players that did or didn't do poorly in a freaking exhibition game. Quite frankly, who cares about what they did in the All-Star game.

[nyjunc]

It's not "cut and dry" or else you wouldn't get arguement from multilple posters on here ever time you preach that he's by far the best ever. I will not get in this disagreement again in yet another thread. Tired of discussing it. As far as Papelbon, why even put him in this discussion other than that he ran his mouth. He's not even in the top 20 all-time closers, and he's not even in the top 3 in the AL. Particularly lately!!!! There is no comparison. If I'm discussing relievers that rival Rivera all time, it's the previously mentioned Eckersley, Gossage and Lee Smith, maybe Rollie Fingers. If I'm talking about current closers, we're talking Brad Lidge, K-Rod and Nathan. Papelbon is good, but he's not in the elite class with these guys. And I agree with you, I don't see his superstar status being prolonged one.

It is cut and dry which is why the people that have anti-Rivera stances haven't been able to back up their arguments. People have mentioned Nathan, Rodriguez and Hoffman and Mariano blows away all of them when you put it all together. It's hard to compare him to closers of the 70s but Mariano is clearly better than Eckersley. Eckersley was a great closer for a brief period of time but as good as he was he had a 1.84 ERA and that went down w/ his '96 in SL. In oak his ERA was 2.43, neither is close to .77. His WHIP was .96 which is very good, Mariano's .75.

It's hard to compare him to the 70s guys b/c they pitched more BUT:

Mariano('97-'08): 2.06 ERA, .99 WHIP, Postseason .91 ERA, .70 WHIP

Gossage('75, '77-'88): 2.33 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, postseason 2.87 ERA, .90 WHIP

Fingers('69, '71-'85): 2.80 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, postseason 2.35 ERA, 1.17 WHIP

Sutter: 2.83 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, postseason 3.00 ERA, .75 WHIP

Wilhelm: 2.51 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, only piuched 2 postseason innings but didn't allow a run and had a WHIP of .47